MacBook Pro 16” a dud?

I’m asking on behalf of the home studio musician who wants to record more audio than tinker with midi.

I’ve heard lots of complaints about consistent fan noise being so loud that you can’t have the computer in the same room as the microphone. Just wondering if there is anyone out there who has had a positive experience with the new MacBook for recording?

If not the new MacBook Pro 16”, does anyone have any recommendations for someone in my situation?

Thanks from Alaska.

-JT

That's normal... That's been true for every 15" since 2011...

When you open logic, it activates the discrete gpu which ramps the fans.

13", you can use it in the same room, it doesn't have a dgpu and you can do simple backing track + recording with fans off (0 rpm)

and that doesn't make 16" a dud... it makes your studio a dud build a booth for recording.

Right. "Dud" may have been an improper term. Just wanting to see if members of this forum can corroborate the seemingly endless reports of loud fans on the 16" beast.

You're also right that room treatment, isolated recording booths, or having a separate control room are obviously great options. I was asking my question for myself and for (undoubtedly) many others for whom these options are not available due to limited space, etc.

Only partly tangential here...it seems that a lot (most?) of Logic Pro users aren't "recording" audio; they're using virtual instruments, loops, and the like. For these users, fan noise would be an annoyance at most. For users who are recording actual instruments, the fan noise IS certainly a problem. Nobody wants their nice shiny condenser mics picking up the whirring fans.

I've been reading up on the current versions of 13" MBP's. I think my best bet may be to wait and see what happens with updates.

Thanks again,

Jesse

I don't think recording one condenser mic is gonna make such a powerful computer whirr up the fans.

Just don't put the condenser right next to the laptop, and don't crank the input gain.

Put a gain plugin on the channel strip to hear the signal louder.

The worst part about any recording is to hear the room because the mic pre gain is set too high.

Singers can't hear themselves so they crank the mic pre gain and you hear the whole room in the track.

To avoid that use a Gain plugin for monitoring.

Thanks for the tip!

Some of that is Greek to me. I don’t currently own a computer and haven’t for years. (Writing this on my phone.)

I did some home hobbyist recording years ago with an 8 track which was super fun. Finally going to do the “real” thing, whatever that means.

Glad I found this site.

Thanks again.

I did my first recording with a 4-track Fostex.

Computers make recording much easier and even more fun!

I don't think recording one condenser mic is gonna make such a powerful computer whirr up the fans.

Just don't put the condenser right next to the laptop, and don't crank the input gain.

Put a gain plugin on the channel strip to hear the signal louder.

The worst part about any recording is to hear the room because the mic pre gain is set too high.

Singers can't hear themselves so they crank the mic pre gain and you hear the whole room in the track.

To avoid that use a Gain plugin for monitoring.

Everytime you start up logic, 16"/15" mac fires up its 35W discrete GPU.

That's 40% increase in potential power consumption compared to running integrated.

Fans immediately go up no matter what you do.

about the second part:

Voice vs room noise:

It doesn't matter whether you crank up mic gain, or use a gain plugin. Voice vs room is Signal-to-noise.

If you record 10dB lower, noise will be 10dB lower, but so will the vocals. SNR remains the same.

this doesn't solve it at all.

the only way to improve SNR is to

a) sing louder/closer to mic

b) reduce source noise

c) post production (denoising)

Voice vs room noise:

It doesn't matter whether you crank up mic gain, or use a gain plugin. Voice vs room is Signal-to-noise.

If you record 10dB lower, noise will be 10dB lower, but so will the vocals. SNR remains the same.

this doesn't solve it at all.

Of course it doesn't solve it, but I'm suggesting a workaround.

Everytime you start up logic, 16"/15" mac fires up its 35W discrete GPU.

That's 40% increase in potential power consumption compared to running integrated.

 

Fans immediately go up no matter what you do.

Ok, have you ever measured the actual noise in dB?

Of course it doesn't solve it, but I'm suggesting a workaround.

its not a workaround tho. The moment you raise the level of the recorded material, the noise floor is right where it would be if you just recorded with higher gain.

So you don't technically work around the issue at all. You just delay it till it slaps you in the face when you mix.

Ok, have you ever measured the actual noise in dB?

I've only had the 2018 15" for a while, so no.

But 16" is not any more silent than previous 15":

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/15/heres-what-the-16-inch-macbook-pro-keyboard-sounds-like

my recording room has around 27dB A residual noise, which is pretty good. (I have a separate rec room so i dont record with the laptop in the room)

in my case, 44dB (from the article) means 17dB higher noise floor.

To get back to 27dB of my usual residual noise, i'd have to move 7meters away from the source (the macbook).

The sound level drops 6dB for everytime you DOUBLE THE DISTANCE (not 6db/meter as per common misconception)

When you start compressing and or distorting stuff (especially modern pop vocals), fans of a 15"/16" macbook pro will be audible if you're near the microphone with it.

Macbook pro 13" quadcore can record (tested) for a good half an hour in a simple backing track + 2 audio tracks, before fans even turn on (they're literally 0 rpm).

It's a much better choice if you plan to record in the same room with the laptop.

edit:

bonus info, my control room, with HVAC on full, has 35 dB A noise floor. That's why i opted for the Mac Mini instead of the 15" back in 2018 - i didn't want the noise.

its not a workaround tho. The moment you raise the level of the recorded material, the noise floor is right where it would be if you just recorded with higher gain.

I have to do this in untreated rooms in a music school, where you have the drummer practicing upstairs, students talking in the hallway, and bass players next door, and doors of practice rooms closing in the background.

Talk about a nightmare, but you have to do it. So the singer works the mic and then you cut out the non-singing bits.

And I have also recorded singers with a 2012 laptop in a bedroom, scarlett interface and mic, where you had to stop because the train was passing by.

But the fans were never an issue.

If I crank the gain, you hear the room, if the level is low and the singer works the mic, you get decent results when there's no other way.

So what would you do if the singer says, I can't hear myself?

its not a workaround tho. The moment you raise the level of the recorded material, the noise floor is right where it would be if you just recorded with higher gain.

 

I have to do this in untreated rooms in a music school, where you have the drummer practicing upstairs, students talking in the hallway, and bass players next door, and doors of practice rooms closing in the background.

Talk about a nightmare, but you have to do it. So the singer works the mic and then you cut out the non-singing bits.

And I have also recorded singers with a 2012 laptop in a bedroom, scarlett interface and mic, where you had to stop because the train was passing by.

But the fans were never an issue.

If I crank the gain, you hear the room, if the level is low and the singer works the mic, you get decent results when there's no other way.

 

So what would you do if the singer says, I can't hear myself?

I actually RX7-ed macbook pro noise from a recording before.

I'm not saying its not workable, a lot of things are, i'm saying its not optimal and that hearing the noise doesn't mean the 16" is malfunctioning, and that it makes no difference whether you crank the preamp gain or with the plugin - nothing else.

in anycase, i have a separate output mix for the singer always so i tend to record at somewhere between -20 to -10db peak - i pull up the output mix, or the headphone preamp out up.

Except getting a decently hot input, there's really nothing you can or should do with preamp gain, because it fixes nothing.

"working the mic" is not always an options. Some singers are very quiet. I won't tell the singer to sing louder if it doesn't fit the song because I have fan noise

That's normal... That's been true for every 15" since 2011...

When you open logic, it activates the discrete gpu which ramps the fans.

 

13", you can use it in the same room, it doesn't have a dgpu and you can do simple backing track + recording with fans off (0 rpm)

 

 

and that doesn't make 16" a dud... it makes your studio a dud build a booth for recording.

There is no option to disable the DGPU on Logic?

That's normal... That's been true for every 15" since 2011...

When you open logic, it activates the discrete gpu which ramps the fans.

 

13", you can use it in the same room, it doesn't have a dgpu and you can do simple backing track + recording with fans off (0 rpm)

 

 

and that doesn't make 16" a dud... it makes your studio a dud build a booth for recording.

There is no option to disable the DGPU on Logic?

there was a flag in logic's app bundle plist to disable it, but i don't know of its still there

It seems like all Apple laptop options from 2016, on are just not desirable for what we do. I recently played around in Logic on a new 13" quad core and it got so freakin hot in less than 2 minutes. And i was barely doing anything. Couldn't tell if the fan came on as I was in the insanely noisy Apple Store at the time.

Meanwhile, back home on my 2013 13" duo core: RARELY makes a sound and barely gets warm. Both occur only while rendering video in iMovie. Now, its definitely underpowered across the board (8gb of non-upgradeable ram), so I've been researching a replacement. Unless I go same vintage (2013-2015) with higher spec, laptops are out. Unless of course the supposed new 14.1" model changes the game. But I doubt it.

It seems like all Apple laptop options from 2016, on are just not desirable for what we do. I recently played around in Logic on a new 13" quad core and it got so freakin hot in less than 2 minutes. And i was barely doing anything. Couldn't tell if the fan came on as I was in the insanely noisy Apple Store at the time.

 

Meanwhile, back home on my 2013 13" duo core: RARELY makes a sound and barely gets warm. Both occur only while rendering video in iMovie. Now, its definitely underpowered across the board (8gb of non-upgradeable ram), so I've been researching a replacement. Unless I go same vintage (2013-2015) with higher spec, laptops are out. Unless of course the supposed new 14.1" model changes the game. But I doubt it.

That's not entirely accurate. I've had the 2018 15" i9 (returned), and 2012 15" retina (gf now uses it). And the 2018 i5 Quad i have is a better machine than the 2012-2015 15" in my opinion - it's much quieter and even when fans turn on and ramp up it stays relatively quiet, and even the i5 offers better CPU performance than any 15" up to 2018 6-cores.

the 2018 15" was louder than the 2012 15" retina. The 13" isn't - not by a long shot.

And quad-core is nothing to sneeze at either.

However, until intel makes cooler chips, i don't think we'll see a 6-core inside a 13"/14".

ok, so thats interesting data for sure. Any reason you chose the i5 instead going with the i7 for your current 13" machine?

both have hyperthreading, both are thermally limited for max multicore performance - so the difference in performance (few %) did not justify the expense (more than few %) in my case at all.

i7 v i5 would give me maybe a track more in logic.

I use it when outside studio and for live performance.

ok, so thats interesting data for sure. Any reason you chose the i5 instead going with the i7 for your current 13" machine?

both have hyperthreading, both are thermally limited for max multicore performance - so the difference in performance (few %) did not justify the expense (more than few %) in my case at all.

i7 v i5 would give me maybe a track more in logic.

 

I use it when outside studio and for live performance.

awesome, invaluable info. Thank you. As you might recall from my previous posts, I've been looking to replace my laptop for quite some time now. While the new computer doesn't necessarily need to be a laptop, there is a certain appeal in the concept for me. Maybe its the coziness, or the impressiveness of being able to do so much with such a relatively small device. I've been eyeballing 13" touch bar quad cores since day one, but have been super hesitant to pull the trigger as I don't want to short change myself. Although I look at what I've been able to accomplish with my current machine....

Was the 15" MacBook Pro replaced with the 16" because of keyboard problems on the 15"? There are some great deals on the 15" now over at B&H Photo...got my curiosity as I am on a mid-2012 MacBook Pro now and would like to upgrade in the next few weeks. Any suggestions?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1480943-REG/apple_mv912ll_a_15_4_macbook_pro_with.html

Thanks.

lots of enhancements made to the 16 inch, besides the keyboard. check the specs, compare it to the 15" (which is still an impressive machine).

if it were me, i'd 'future-proof' and go for the improved 16"...

Keyboard-proof you mean

i know a lot of people didn't like the previous keyboard; i spend a million hours a day on a 2016 12" macbook (email, writing, surfing, business), and have not (knock on aluminum) had a problem with the keyboard.

but the specs, and the design of the 16" are a significant step up from the 16"... when that trickles down to a 13" (or, as rumored, 14") macbook pro... will probably do that.

the 16" is impressive (my friend has one, and she, for some reason, refuses to 'lend' it to me )

The new Mac mini is not 8 cores so disappointing

how many places are you going to post this?

there's a lot more to a computer than the number of cores; the processor speed, for instance; ram. people on this forum are using older minis with great success; the specs on the new one will take that even further.

this is impressive: "3.2GHz 6-core Intel Core i7"

Keyboard-proof you mean

 

i know a lot of people didn't like the previous keyboard; i spend a million hours a day on a 2016 12" macbook (email, writing, surfing, business), and have not (knock on aluminum) had a problem with the keyboard.

 

but the specs, and the design of the 16" are a significant step up from the 16"... when that trickles down to a 13" (or, as rumored, 14") macbook pro... will probably do that.

 

the 16" is impressive (my friend has one, and she, for some reason, refuses to 'lend' it to me )

I'm typing on my 13" 2018 as we speak and i like the keyboard honestly, and it's been fine for more than a year - hope it stays that way.

as far as specs go, 2019 16" vs 15" are actually identical - but 16" has 33% more volume and much better cooling consequently so it can drag significantly more out of that hardware.

I'm gonna miss the butterfly keyboard, but everything else about 14" sounds WONDERFUL.

 

i know a lot of people didn't like the previous keyboard; i spend a million hours a day on a 2016 12" macbook (email, writing, surfing, business), and have not (knock on aluminum) had a problem with the keyboard.

 

but the specs, and the design of the 16" are a significant step up from the 16"... when that trickles down to a 13" (or, as rumored, 14") macbook pro... will probably do that.

 

the 16" is impressive (my friend has one, and she, for some reason, refuses to 'lend' it to me )

 

I'm typing on my 13" 2018 as we speak and i like the keyboard honestly, and it's been fine for more than a year - hope it stays that way.

 

as far as specs go, 2019 16" vs 15" are actually identical - but 16" has 33% more volume and much better cooling consequently so it can drag significantly more out of that hardware.

 

I'm gonna miss the butterfly keyboard, but everything else about 14" sounds WONDERFUL.

true, we're really talking about the keyboard, and the screen... still good things (i guess; i actually like the butterfly keyboard too).

I don't think recording one condenser mic is gonna make such a powerful computer whirr up the fans.

Just don't put the condenser right next to the laptop, and don't crank the input gain.

Put a gain plugin on the channel strip to hear the signal louder.

The worst part about any recording is to hear the room because the mic pre gain is set too high.

Singers can't hear themselves so they crank the mic pre gain and you hear the whole room in the track.

To avoid that use a Gain plugin for monitoring.

AHHH !! it all makes sense now ! thank you. i don't record much and dealt with that newbie stuff. =) thank you.