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If the mix engineer wants the tracks dry...


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I am currently working with a vocalist on producing an EP

 

I would say we will be finished with it in about 3-4 months

 

In anticipation of finishing the EP, I have begun researching mix engineers as I know my limitations and do not want to mix

 

Thus far, all of the mix engineers I have communicated with have told me they want all the tracks in each project "dry"

 

That being said, I am beginning to wonder why, other than for my own enjoyment, I spend so much time finding the right reverbs, delays, modulations, etc., then automating them, when producing a song if the mix engineer ultimately wants everything dry so they can apply their own effects and automation to the song

 

It seems all the money I have spent on effects plug-ins is meaningless unless I am going to mix the songs myself

 

Am I thinking of this in the wrong way?

 

Thank you

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pro mixers need dry tracks. if they want to, for example, tweak the eq on a vocal, they shouldn't be tweaking the reverb eq at the same time. and so on.

 

you could give them a reference mix, as atlas007 suggests, to show what you want in terms of delays, etc. or just a copy of each track that you have a preferred effect on... to show what you wanted there. (so, 2 tracks, ie LEAD VOCAL, then LEAD VOCAL (FX); something like that.

 

but, for someone to mix, dry is the thing, so they can eq/compress/de-ess/whatever; can't do that efficiently if there's delay on the track.

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I always want dry tracks.

 

Plugins may be great, but your monitoring probably isn't, and usually when i get wet projects and client come into the studio their jaws drop at how different it sounds in reality than on their (usually flawed) system, even compared to references they supposedly followed.

 

Also there are a lot of tricks i pull off on reverbs/delays to make space for the main vocal track. When you slam that into -9LUFS, all the peaks are squashed and all the wet crud sounds louder than it's supposed to be. I often sidechain reverb sends or do some weird m/s compression things on them, EQ them separately, and always use a differently processed track to send to reverbs than i use as a main track.

 

I don't need wet tracks because they don't really do much for me, but i do always like a demo with the tracks of how producer envisioned it, and ask if there are specific wishes to delay time or do i have a certain degree of freedom.

I ask for preset settings if we share some plugins, or just ask them to send projects if they work in Logic.

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I always want dry tracks.

 

Plugins may be great, but your monitoring probably isn't, and usually when i get wet projects and client come into the studio their jaws drop at how different it sounds in reality than on their (usually flawed) system, even compared to references they supposedly followed.

 

Also there are a lot of tricks i pull off on reverbs/delays to make space for the main vocal track. When you slam that into -9LUFS, all the peaks are squashed and all the wet crud sounds louder than it's supposed to be. I often sidechain reverb sends or do some weird m/s compression things on them, EQ them separately, and always use a differently processed track to send to reverbs than i use as a main track.

 

I don't need wet tracks because they don't really do much for me, but i do always like a demo with the tracks of how producer envisioned it, and ask if there are specific wishes to delay time or do i have a certain degree of freedom.

I ask for preset settings if we share some plugins, or just ask them to send projects if they work in Logic.

 

 

 

Thank soft the tips - do you have a website or link to a portfolio of your mixing work?

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if you're going to mix this yourself, leave headroom... and get the mixes mastered by a pro. if you're looking for a mix engineer... worth talking to people here, or check out: https://soundbetter.com, a great resource.

 

 

Thanks been chatting with @ploki

 

Now, a question about headroom - I am probably misunderstanding something David has stated (or I think he has stated) on the boards here but, he said with digital recording in the box, there is no need for "gain staging"

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AFAIK, even if they could relate, gain staging and headroom are different concepts.

 

Gain staging is critical in analog realm, in order (mainly) to achieve the highest audio/noise ratio as possible, which noise pertain (solely/mainly) to an analog recording environment.

Headroom is the available space (dB) to increase level before clipping, which is crucial when comes the time to master and is most of the time a definite no-no in digital recording environment.

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AFAIK, even if they could relate, gain staging and headroom are different concepts.

 

Gain staging is critical in analog realm, in order (mainly) to achieve the highest audio/noise ratio as possible, which noise pertain (solely/mainly) to an analog recording environment.

Headroom is the available space (dB) to increase level before clipping, which is crucial when comes the time to master and is most of the time a definite no-no in digital recording environment.

 

Ahhh ok thank you for clearing that up

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Now, a question about headroom - I am probably misunderstanding something David has stated (or I think he has stated) on the boards here but, he said with digital recording in the box, there is no need for "gain staging"

No! That's definitely not something I said. :shock:

 

Gain staging means making sure your gain is reasonable at every stage. When recording in digital, that means make sure you don't clip the mic, the mic preamp, any other device in the analog realm before the converters, and to avoid clipping the converters, make sure the signal you're recording doesn't hit 0 dBFS.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm glad you asked this question.

I have only had a professional mixing job done on a few of my better songs.

Mostly because the pro mixers I know charge a lot of money, and I'm a broke loser.

My advice to you is to give the mixer what they asks for.

This doesn't mean that you can't ALSO give them the effects as well (they just have to be on separate channels/tracks)

....meaning put all your time based effects on aux/send channels and bounce them all separately with all the "dry" instrument tracks.

I think it's called "bounce stems" in the new Logic?

Here's the important part........Tell the engineer/mixer to use your time based effects.

All the effects will be on separate channels so the mixer will still have freedom to process the time based effects to their liking.

Next, (this might not apply to you but....) tell the mixer that you like lots of reverb/delays!

I wish I had done this before I paid out the ass for dry mixes that weren't to my liking but you live and you learn.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To anyone who's trying to add effects, the presence of effects, EQ and so on acts like a form of "noise." You can't take the noise out and it limits what you can do with the signal. By giving him "exactly what you started with," he can replicate and then improve upon your artistic vision.

 

Clipping is like the "burr haircut" your daddy used to give you when you were a kid. The waveform – the digital data – is literally gone, turned into a square wave. The recording is therefore ruined.

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you work with what you're given (if the client can't, or won't fix it). i've done some mixes & remixes for a singer who bathes her lead vocal in reverb; that is her sound, and it's non-negotiable.

 

guitars with delays ("that's my sound"); am remixing a song that is a stereo-mixed vocal and piano; that's all there is.

 

i've learned not to be annoyed with these things (just don't ask me how that's working out for me, lol); so i try to look at these things as challenges, not obstacles.

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Starting with dry tracks makes sense, but you’re also hinting at the risks of working with a new mixing engineer. I only work with engineers I’ve known for years. I know what artists they’ve mixed and I know what kind of sound I can expect. You can think of the mix engineer as another musician bringing their talent to your creation. I’m not inclined to trust somebody new - otherwise I’ll do the mixing myself.
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Starting with dry tracks makes sense, but you’re also hinting at the risks of working with a new mixing engineer. I only work with engineers I’ve known for years. I know what artists they’ve mixed and I know what kind of sound I can expect. You can think of the mix engineer as another musician bringing their talent to your creation. I’m not inclined to trust somebody new - otherwise I’ll do the mixing myself.

 

if you're going to have your music mixed by someone... you need to trust them. once you get your first mix back, you can easily say ' i want more reverb on the vocal', or... 'can you pan the guitar to the left'... or whatever (& you can, of course, ask for these things in advance).

 

but if you give a mix engineer a vocal with reverb... that can't be undone. so if they want to eq the voice, they're also eq'ing the reverb, or compressing... etc.

 

mix engineers need dry tracks. including notes, or a reference file with an effect, is easy. but let them do their job with the best possible resources...

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