Are studio consoles obsolete?

I see a lot of recording studios still using a mixing console, typically w/8 or 16 input audio interface(s) to Logic. I guess the mixer gives you a central place for all your XLR mic’s and phantom power for condenser mic’s, but I can’t see why you’d use the eq or anything that modifies your signal before Logic. The direction I’ve been headed is to have 8 to 16 inputs directly on the audio interface(s) then just use software to set gain/trim and to mix or route. The big advantage is both saving space and being able to save and recall settings. Everything else I’d rather have in Logic w/plugins. There’s lots of 1U 8 Pre devices to choose from, so with 2U rack space, you can kick the old mixing console to the curb! Right?

Digital mixers with motorized faders are a different story. If your job is mainly mixing, it makes a lot of sense, but a lot of the entry level models are 8 channel. So you get the tactile legacy of faders, buttons and dials, but you’re still mixing 8 tracks at a time. It’s a far cry from the old 32 or 48 analog consoles of yesteryear. Plus, new digital/motorized devices are expensive and i see reports of problems with DAW compatibility.

Are studio mixing consoles still useful? Am I missing something?

I find faders useful mixing live, in studio context i don't find them neither fast nor intuitive and they take a lot of space.

imo, you're not missing anything, but i'm sure someone more old school will tell you you're missing an arm and a leg

I have gone mixerless 15 years ago (had a 40 channel / 80 simultaneous-inputs inline console), so I know both sides.

There is the undisputable fact of control immediacy where you have *everything* right there in front of you on a console. No digging through menus, no clicking to open plugin windows, no constant re-shuffling plugin windows on an already crowded screen.

Flipping trough all possible polarity combinations of 11 drum mics is done in a minute on a console and will take much longer when all you have is a 15" Macbook screen.

Setting up three independent headphone mixes of 20 recording tracks during the first rundown of the song is a breeze on a real console and an absolute nightmare with a mouse.

Getting a track roughly into shape during mixdown is quick and easy on a console and endless clickety-click on a computer.

There is the sound of the console. I'm not talking about the transient-smearing, humming noise-fest of an el-cheapo 4channel "volume-balancer". A great console will have a sound that pulls the elements of a mix together. This is much harder to achieve with plugins while on a mixer it's just there.

A big console does impress clients. *A lot*.

However.

A high quality large format console is prohibitively expensive to buy, install, operate and maintain. It takes ridiculous amounts of space, wiring and electrical power, although you won't need heating anymore in your control room.

It's an absolute nightmare when the client calls and asks for the Vocal-Up mix that you so conveniently forgot to print because it was quite late already. It's impossible to truly recall an analog mixer setting, it will always be different. Total recall is a given on a computer, impossible in an analog studio with a board and FX racks. On a computer, you can quickly change projects to follow changing schedules throughout the day and still pick up exactly where you left off.

Automation on a console is archaic in comparison to the ease and preciseness of doing it on a computer.

A laptop can be carried with one hand to the recording location. A 64 channel inline console weighing half a ton - not so much.

If your mixer lacks a feature, tough luck. On the computer you either wait for the update or find one of five valid ways around it.

great post fuzzfilth

(except mixdown thing. in this example: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2018/11/29/the-audio-summing-debate-can-you-tell-the-difference-the-results-4wbj2-yhg4m-z5d5f i actually prefer the sound of the digital mixdown.)

granted, analog mixdown (in this example) is more "glued" but i also find it less open and breathing less.

oh yeah, headphone mixes are annoying. I use logic remote from time to time just for sloppy headphone mix.

There is a subjective element that is hard to measure scientifically when using a famous console like an SSL or Neve. You can call it placebo if you want.

But when you pull up the mix on one of those consoles and start moving knobs, everything sounds so separated and clean; and the summing, "analog dirt" or warmth is unique because it's using the whole circuitry. And now you have gazillion plugins try to imitate that.

I think the unpredictability of analog is what makes it still exciting to some people.

It’s so true that clients, musicians, even myself, like looking at a big console. It says “think of what we can do here!” Digital alternatives on computer screens are not as inspiring.

While I use a MacBook Pro 15, I’ve always had an additional computer display or 2. I like to have a mixer open at all times, plus the DAW, and often the audio interface software. With MOTU, I would use CueMix FX for routing, playback and multiple headphone mixes. With Logic X as my DAW, I’m managing the tracking, plugins and mix.

Lately the CueMix FX software has been causing me grief, as I can only find a limited version (64 bit) that works w/MacOS 10.15.7 Catalina. Without it I have to adjust gain/trim using the interface knobs, without the ability to save and recall setting. I’m trying to get help from MOTU..../. But....

great post fuzzfilth

(except mixdown thing. in this example: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2018/11/29/the-audio-summing-debate-can-you-tell-the-difference-the-results-4wbj2-yhg4m-z5d5f i actually prefer the sound of the digital mixdown.)

granted, analog mixdown (in this example) is more "glued" but i also find it less open and breathing less.

 

oh yeah, headphone mixes are annoying. I use logic remote from time to time just for sloppy headphone mix.

Great link to listening evidence! Very helpful.

I have gone mixerless 15 years ago (had a 40 channel / 80 simultaneous-inputs inline console), so I know both sides.

 

There is the undisputable fact of control immediacy where you have *everything* right there in front of you on a console. No digging through menus, no clicking to open plugin windows, no constant re-shuffling plugin windows on an already crowded screen.

Flipping trough all possible polarity combinations of 11 drum mics is done in a minute on a console and will take much longer when all you have is a 15" Macbook screen.

Setting up three independent headphone mixes of 20 recording tracks during the first rundown of the song is a breeze on a real console and an absolute nightmare with a mouse.

Getting a track roughly into shape during mixdown is quick and easy on a console and endless clickety-click on a computer.

 

There is the sound of the console. I'm not talking about the transient-smearing, humming noise-fest of an el-cheapo 4channel "volume-balancer". A great console will have a sound that pulls the elements of a mix together. This is much harder to achieve with plugins while on a mixer it's just there.

 

A big console does impress clients. *A lot*.

 

However.

 

A high quality large format console is prohibitively expensive to buy, install, operate and maintain. It takes ridiculous amounts of space, wiring and electrical power, although you won't need heating anymore in your control room.

 

It's an absolute nightmare when the client calls and asks for the Vocal-Up mix that you so conveniently forgot to print because it was quite late already. It's impossible to truly recall an analog mixer setting, it will always be different. Total recall is a given on a computer, impossible in an analog studio with a board and FX racks. On a computer, you can quickly change projects to follow changing schedules throughout the day and still pick up exactly where you left off.

 

Automation on a console is archaic in comparison to the ease and preciseness of doing it on a computer.

 

A laptop can be carried with one hand to the recording location. A 64 channel inline console weighing half a ton - not so much.

 

If your mixer lacks a feature, tough luck. On the computer you either wait for the update or find one of five valid ways around it.

Can you elaborate on your mixerless setup?

Just like you described, using a high quality interface with enough connections, in my case an RME Fireface800 with an added Creamware A16 Ultra II converter, giving me 4 mic inputs, 24 line inputs and 24 line outputs. I can switch either one or two of the ADAT connections from the A16 to one or two other boxes with eight mic channels for a total of 20 mic inputs if need be.

On the band's rig I have a MOTU M8 with a Focusrite OctoPre II and a MOTU 8Pre for a total of 24 mic inputs and 16 line outs.

Given that the tower of external devices like rack synths and FX boxes was ever shrinking since their heyday in the nineties, there just was no point in keeping a huge mixer with less and less to feed into.

Every audio interface vendor provides software for managing their own devices, but when you combine multiple devices from different vendors it’s difficult to find 1 software program that does everything. For example, Focusrite has “Air” settings for their pre-amps, MOTU has eq and compression built into the 8 Pre DSP. Yes - you can tweak these features from the physical knobs/dials on each device - but try to find 1 software program that will do it all.... that’s tough.

Yes - you can create an aggregate audio device in MacOS, but you’re giving up access to device specific features, like DSPs.

For your live band rig with 24 mic inputs, what software are you using to mix all 24 inputs?

After a few attempts to manage several layers of software mixers which always tend to step on each other's toes, I dropped the idea and went for full control via Logic. Almost. In the MOTU M8, I have a mixer layer which can act as a failsafe in case the computer crashes so I can quickly switch to a generic mix. Haven't needed to yet and don't intend to...

I wrote about the acoustic- + electric-drums + band rig here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=140689&p=725374#p725374

and about the edrum-rig here:

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=137496&p=705281#p705281

i've never seen the attraction of a console (in a DAW world), or a multi-channel controller. when i record, or mix... it's just me, sitting at a screen, with two hands (am assuming that's true for most people). i change one level, or one pan, or one effect at a time. or i can group inputs in logic. or... whatever.

a console looks great (as do some of the controllers, ie the SSL, the presonus, etc), but i can mix an album in the time it takes to configure one, and am sitting right there in front of the screen anyway. still... whatever works (or is FUN to use); that's all that matters.

After a few attempts to manage several layers of software mixers which always tend to step on each other's toes, I dropped the idea and went for full control via Logic. Almost. In the MOTU M8, I have a mixer layer which can act as a failsafe in case the computer crashes so I can quickly switch to a generic mix. Haven't needed to yet and don't intend to...

 

I wrote about the acoustic- + electric-drums + band rig here:

 

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=140689&p=725374#p725374

 

and about the edrum-rig here:

 

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=137496&p=705281#p705281

Wow! That routing is beyond my understanding! Well done.

The reason I brought up this topic is that I have a studio mixer for sale on FB Marketplace. I was using it, but only for live ‘ remote recording, which I haven’t done in quite a while. I had performed gigs with the MOTU Traveler + MOTU 8 Pre and CueMix FX software, but I think MOTU support for CueMix is done, as I can’t get it to work on MacOS 10.15.7 Catalina (64 bit). There is other software I could use, but I’m really out of runway on the Traveler and should consider a new audio interface.

I’m not getting much interest in the mixer, so I might just keep it if it doesn’t sell. I figure it won’t be worth any less in the future.

but I think MOTU support for CueMix is done, as I can’t get it to work on MacOS 10.15.7 Catalina (64 bit)

The new installer works up to Catalina included:

https://motu.com/download

i've never seen the attraction of a console (in a DAW world), or a multi-channel controller. when i record, or mix... it's just me, sitting at a screen, with two hands (am assuming that's true for most people). i change one level, or one pan, or one effect at a time. or i can group inputs in logic. or... whatever.

 

a console looks great (as do some of the controllers, ie the SSL, the presonus, etc), but i can mix an album in the time it takes to configure one, and am sitting right there in front of the screen anyway. still... whatever works (or is FUN to use); that's all that matters.

+1

I got to work with an Avid S6. Extremely cool but so utterly oversized and pointless imo.

I tried to so hard to love my Logic Control for so long, but i couldnt

I kinda hope not; there's always gonna be a "need" for them among the heads who have done this for a while both in live reinforcement and most higher-end studios that already had them. I learned about mixing late in the game before DAWs took off and became the staple they are to some, so my leaning is toward that. Thank goodness I had some teaching on a rather gently used Toft ATB32, but that was only for about 4 months and training shifted to the D-Con and SSL4000. I prefer those now simply for the workflow, but the sound of the Toft was pretty warm...better than that live 32-ch PreSonus board... (lol)

BTW, fuzzfilth - LOVED your explanation!!