Apogee Duet and guitars, inputs too sensitive?

Hello everyone, am I the only one who finds that the guitar inputs of the Duet are way to sensitive? When I plug in a normal electric guitar, not even one with active PUs, I find that I have to turn down the input on the Duet almost all the way, otherwise it starts clipping.

I spoke with another Duet user who experiences the same thing, but I couldn't find much about this problem on the net.

I find this to be a flaw in the design of the Duet.

A guy from Apogee, whom I asked about it, told me that there are no plans to fix it, since in their experience users of the Duet do not generally complain about this. Hard to say, whether he was aware of this problem in general, or if in their opinion this problem doesn't exist. Ah well, fair enough...

As a solution I've been thinking, maybe there's some little gadget on the market, that could be plugged between guitar and Duet, and which would reduce the guitars output without affecting the sound. Turning down the volume knob on the guitar is never a good idea, because it always makes the sound dull.

I do like the Duet for its ease of use, good sound, the big knob and cos it looks good sitting on my desk Only when plugging in guitars I feel that this needs a solution.

Thanks for any input

You lucky guy have an Apogee Duet . With my M-Audio FireWire Solo i have the same thing, if i set the gain knob to the middle it starts clipping a bit but that's ok i can't hear any distortion (on clean amp settings, of course).

I mean, do you really hear the clipping disortion when it clipps a little bit?

Well yes, when everything turns red... Maybe it's a psychological thing too, having to turn down the knob all the way just feels not right... besides it leaves me with so little flexibility.

I mean, what's the point in having a huge knob with a supposedly big range for setting the levels, if only 10% of that range actually work?

Can't you lower the gain with the software? You could lower the volume there and compromise by turning the knob on the Duet up .

By software you mean Logic I assume.

I've been looking for a pad switch to make the input less sensitive, but there's no such thing, neither as a hardware switch on the unit itself nor as a software switch in the Maestro control panel software.

The LEDs turn red on the Duet itself, so this would be the only place where a pad switch would make sense.

If it clips already in the input stage, i.e. the AD converter, the signal would get into Logic already clipped, which isn't so nice.

Any Duet users out there?

Are the ins and outs on the Duet adjustable...as in -10dBV or +4dBu?

On my FireFace 400, you can adjust 4 of the line inputs to lo gain, +4dBu or -10dBV.

Are the ins and outs on the Duet adjustable...as in -10dBV or +4dBu?

On my FireFace 400, you can adjust 4 of the line inputs to lo gain, +4dBu or -10dBV.

Not that I'm aware of...

Doesn't anybody else here use a Duet and might have had the same issue?

Not owing the Duet myself (but thinking of getting one) and I remember I saw there's a switch betwen both status.

On LP9 manual it says

You can choose between two line options, +4 dBu and −10 dBV, when setting the reference level of the line input.

Not owing the Duet myself (but thinking of getting one) and I remember I saw there's a switch betwen both status.

 

On LP9 manual it says

 

You can choose between two line options, +4 dBu and −10 dBV, when setting the reference level of the line input.

That's certainly true, but only for the balanced XLR Inputs. This is about the unbalanced instrument inputs however, which cannot be set to any different lever.

Am I really the only Duet user who finds that the instrument inputs are too sensitive? Maybe it's my guitars, that are too powerful. I doubt it though, I don't even use any high gain heavy metal guitar, mostly just normal guitars with passive single coils on them...

Anyway, thanks for the input so far

Hi Elko,

Have you gone into Maestro to make sure you have selected "Instrument" from the drop-down menu. I haven't used my Duet in awhile, but my level on the Maestro encoder was set to about 17 to 20dB I think. This was when playing my Telecaster on the bridge pickup, I had plenty of headroom. I could also play my Gretsch 6120 (much hotter) without any problems.

From the manual:

"Input:

This pop-up menu is used to select the input connector and level:

XLR Line +4dBu – A balanced (pro) line level input is accepted from the IN-1 and IN-2 (XLR) connectors; gain is fixed: maximum input level is 20 dBu.

XLR Line –10 dBV – A balanced (consumer) line level input is accepted from theIN-1 and IN-2 connectors; gain is fixed: maximum input level is 8 dBu.

XLR Mic – A balanced input is accepted from the IN-1 and IN-2 (XLR) connectors; gain is adjustable between 10 and 75 dB.

Instrument – An unbalanced input is accepted from the IN-2 (1/4”) connectors; gain is adjustable between 0 and 65 dB. These inputs are also suitable for -10 dBV line levels."

Hope you get it sorted out!

-delton

 

Am I really the only Duet user who finds that the instrument inputs are too sensitive? Maybe it's my guitars, that are too powerful. I doubt it though, I don't even use any high gain heavy metal guitar, mostly just normal guitars with passive single coils on them...

 

 

Anyway, thanks for the input so far

No, you're not. My friend has a Strat with a Seymour Duncan humbucker in it (I think that's what it is) and even with the Duet instrument input level all the way down he was peaking right around 0db. I wanted to turn it down, but couldn't.

Well, at least now I know that I'm not the only one experiencing this problem.

What am I going to do if I want to record a guitar with a really high gain output? No headroom...

I'll have to shell out for some sort of attenuation circuitry to bring town my guitars output without compromising the sound...

A Doepfer A-183-1 Dual Attenuator comes to my mind, it's got two channels and is dead cheap. No idea if it works with guitars though, as it's made for modular synths.

I keep asking myself why wouldn't I just turn down my guitars volume knob?

The answer might be because it changes the sound, and it always feels like only half of the sound is coming through...

Ah what do I know. It's a bit annoying that this unit, as good as it is otherwise, isn't really usable with normal electric guitars.

Apogee, please do something!

Please read Deltonfosters post, two messages above. There is the solution of your problem.

Use Maestro software with your Duet.

Please read Deltonfosters post, two messages above. There is the solution of your problem.

 

Use Maestro software with your Duet.

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Sure I'm using Maestro, and sure I have set he inputs to Instrument.

The problem is, that on my Duet (and as it seems not only on mine) the input level on instrument input has to be turned down almost all the way, otherwise the input signal is clipping.

I have set everything to the appropriate setting, and yet this problem occurs.

What I'd need is some sort of PAD switch on the Duet or in Maestro. But there isn't.

I hope the problem is clearer now.

Options:

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

http://www.music123.com/Live-Wire-Solutions-SPDI-Passive-Direct-Box-with-Attenuation-Pad-150449-i1372940.Music123

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IMPpad10

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68600-REG/Shure_A15AS_A15AS_In_Line_Attenuator.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html

Options:

Yeah, thanks redlogic for your links.

Thing is, I will have to accept, that this is a design flaw. Those attenuators you showed me, are meant for XLR inputs. Those are fine though.

I mean, shouldn't the guitar input of the Duet accept normal guitar levels without having to turn it down all the way? Maybe my duet is faulty, don't know. It works fine otherwise, so I'll add a little poti to the breakout box, I made myself.

I can't be bothered to send the thing back and stuff...

I'd just be curious, if there are not more Duet users, who have encountered the same problem. Seems like qtruck and me we're the only two so far.

Thanks for your replies!

If your guitar has a volume knob you could turn it down there...

Unless you want the full mic input from the guitar as part of the guitar sound.

Seems young guitar players don't know about how much tonality they could get by just using the guitar volume (and fingers to also change the tonality and attack.)

If your guitar has a volume knob you could turn it down there...

It does change the sound in a way I don't like.

Try this

http://www.ebtechaudio.com/llsdes.html

This can shift the level up or down depending which way you plug into it.

Used the XLR version as a direct box also as it was the only thing that would

isolate hum from a yamaha motif out put to the sound board.

If you ever need a direct box the XLR version works well for that, You could then experiment with using the xlr inputs on the duet as well.

You can go into it with a mono tip/sleeve guitar cable and got out with tip ring sleeve balanced or XLR or tip sleeve unbalanced........great device that has saved me many times in live sound situtaions where I needed a direct box, hum elim and line level boost or cut.

Are you sure your input is clipping and not your output? I've never encountered this on my Duet, and even with my keyboard I can use the instrument ins, and have the input up to about 20 in Maestro, with the keyboard playing at bout 2/3 volume. My keyboard(Yammy S90es) is way louder on 2/3 volume than any unamped electric guitar I'm sure. Note: this is not how I usually would plug in a modern digital keyboard

Are you sure your not clipping on the output?

Are you sure your input is clipping and not your output? I've never encountered this on my Duet, and even with my keyboard I can use the instrument ins, and have the input up to about 20 in Maestro, with the keyboard playing at bout 2/3 volume. My keyboard(Yammy S90es) is way louder on 2/3 volume than any unamped electric guitar I'm sure. Note: this is not how I usually would plug in a modern digital keyboard

Are you sure your not clipping on the output?

Oh yes, this I'm sure off. Pluggin in my guitar I can turn up the input to a maximum of 10, otherwise everything turns red.

Now seeing that qtruck encountered the same behaviour on another Duet, I'm starting to think that maybe they shipped a faulty series of Duets.

Unfortunately Apogee refuses to acknowledge this problem so far.

Duet user here:

I'm having a similar experience. If I use low-output pickups I can set the gain at a maximum of 17 or so, higher-output pickups at 10.

I'm having similar experience (overloading the inputs) with the XLR inputs trying to record a guitar amp (not even a loud one). Frustrating.

Are you sure your input is clipping and not your output? I've never encountered this on my Duet, and even with my keyboard I can use the instrument ins, and have the input up to about 20 in Maestro, with the keyboard playing at bout 2/3 volume. My keyboard(Yammy S90es) is way louder on 2/3 volume than any unamped electric guitar I'm sure. Note: this is not how I usually would plug in a modern digital keyboard

Are you sure your not clipping on the output?

 

 

Oh yes, this I'm sure off. Pluggin in my guitar I can turn up the input to a maximum of 10, otherwise everything turns red.

 

Now seeing that qtruck encountered the same behaviour on another Duet, I'm starting to think that maybe they shipped a faulty series of Duets.

 

Unfortunately Apogee refuses to acknowledge this problem so far.

mmh, i do have an duet and kinda see the same thing, but i am happy to let the gain sit at 0.

I don't get why people expect to turn up the preamps ??? if source signal is ok then 0 gain what u want.

But this is not an duet only problem, my alesis IO26 has the same issue on the guitar ins.

Active pup, i think my SD blackouts clip even with 0 gain occasionally (duet and IO26).

What I do then is using line in, instead of instruments ins.

in the end it would be nice to get some negative gain, but ok that would mean some significant change in the product, so I would not expect that to happen.

In the end the clipping i get with active pickups on 0 gain is quite minimal and can't hear any distortion.

So far i am fine with it.

I have the same issue. On my fairly reasonable output Tele pup I find that generally one white box is more than enough, but that is only peaking around 8 or so. If I get more than one box up there than I'm clipping. I normally back it down until my signal peaks around -12 and that's normally no boxes present.

I've actually found the Duet really sensitive on a whole. Not sure if that's good or bad, but whatever.

Hi guys,

I have exactly the same issue..Instrument inputs are very sensitive when plugging in my guitar (w/ humbuckers) and recording direct. Its easy to clip, so its set to 0.

You can slightly remove some of the sensitivity by changing the gain/mode to Clickless Operations. I get about 5-9 more db in my input as opposed to setting it to 0.