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Logic's Orchestral Strings vs Others


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I should add that i'm especially interested in the violin, viola and cellos.

 

East West's stuff is quite good, but has reverb tails that can't be removed. I found their Symphony Orchestra Platinum Pro was unusable for chamber group stuff for that reason. If you want concert hall ambience, East West can't be beat, IMO. If you want anything else, you have to use something else.

 

The most faithful digital emulation I've heard of the instruments in which you're interested is done with Synful Orchestra (http://synful.com/). It has two playback modes: one is quick and dirty, but not bad, at all; the other is impressively realistic but a PITA to use. You can demo it long enough to see whether it'll do what you need.

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I tried Logic's strings a long time ago and opted for Synful and East West. I don't recall specifically why I rejected Logic's instruments, however. As I said, it was a while ago.

 

I haven't heard Miroslav Philharmonik, so can't give you an informed opinion.

 

Synful doesn't use samples per se. It models its instruments. The entire package is under 200 MB. It's also a lot less taxing on your CPU than East West's Platinum Pro Symphony.

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check out the Kirk Hunter stuff as well. Great sounds. Great price.

 

I like the Logic EXS strings (I use a lot of EW Play as well)...With Logic..the key is really using the mod wheel for volume automation well, and layering different sounds.

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  • 2 months later...
I have Miroslav Philharmonik and i say timbre difference is huge both have own uses. actually all these sample libraries have own sound i dont like much eastwest strings (based their free sample,and audiodemos and users projects). and if i must choice only one string set i choice miroslav philharmonik i think.i maybe like more logic cello,and contrabass sounds. and good thing i logic strings there is also quiet sampels in some strings i think.
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In a sense, there's no such thing as "better" or "worse" when it comes to sample libraries. It all depends on the music you're writing and the sound you're going for. Right now I'm writing a piece using Logic's stock strings (individual violin, viola, cello, bass sections) because the sections have a smaller sound than my other libraries. And that's what I'm after, a smaller section sound.

 

Mind you, the stock sounds aren't "brilliant", but they're getting the idea across. I'll likely replace some of them once I'm done writing when I start to focus on making the mockup sound more realistic, but I know already that I'll definitely keep some of them for certain sections. Which brings me to the other point...

 

When you're doing orchestral writing, it makes absolutely no sense to be "loyal" to just one library. Use whatever sounds that suit the emotion, even if it means using one brand of (say) violins for the majority of the piece but using other brands for certain phrases (or even single notes) where the attack, vibrato, lack of vibrato, or whatever it is about that other brand suits the feeling.

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What ski said!

 

I also have the EW strings and like them very much. Tons of articulations but that can mean lots of time spent finding the right combination of articulations to fit the part. But in terms of sheer sonic beauty I find they are head and shoulders above the Logic strings, which I also use.

 

With the Logic strings, because there aren't many articulations beyond the basics, I find you really have to write to the capabilities of that library. They can sound very nice in the right context.

 

I've occasionally mixed some Logic and EW strings and was surprised at how much that added to the overall dimension and "realness" of the part.

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  • 10 years later...
Very basic question here. If I download East West strings (for example), do all the sounds import into Logic Pro's library? Like EW would show up in the leftmost alphabetical list, or maybe would be tucked into the Orchestral -> Strings folder? Or is it more complicated than that?
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EW sounds will NOT import into Logic's library. A separate library will be created for EW products, in your Users folder if you don't specify a different location during installation. EW's Play software is the means by which you use EW instruments in Logic. When you select an instrument in a channel strip, "East West" will appear in the "AU Instruments" category, and "Play" will be its only option. Any properly installed EW library will be available. As a side consideration if you have non-boot volumes available things all around will be faster and more stable if you store sample libraries on a drive separate from your boot drive. That's true for Logic samples, as well, but you have to go through some gymnastics to relocate the Logic library.
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Thank you, Homina. One more question for now. I use LPX 10.6.3. I assume the 24-bit version of EW is the right one for me, and that I don't need to spend extra for the 24-plus-16-bit version of EW. Correct?

 

Edited to add another question. I don't see an AU category in my LPX library. Does that appear once I've properly downloaded the EW sounds?

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I recommend talking to EW's customer service people about which product is right for you. They're willing to identify and sell you the best choice for your needs. In general, 24-bit products will take longer to load and impose a greater burden on your CPU. The benefit to them is greater fidelity and more extensive capabilities. You're the only one who knows whether one or the other is the better choice for you.

 

As for AU instruments, the category exists to enable your use of non-LPX instruments, so you're certainly not going to find them IN your LPX library. You select an instrument to use on a virtual instrument track via the "Instrument" button on the track's channel strip:

 

AU1.thumb.jpg.5f48c931cf4c03149e7d54a4af8c7194.jpg

 

Clicking that button will produce a series of submenus depending on the AU content of your system. Here's how I get to Play on mine:

 

AU2.thumb.jpg.4ec106dc529be912db5b2fd90931963b.jpg

 

Hope that helps.

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As a side consideration if you have non-boot volumes available things all around will be faster and more stable if you store sample libraries on a drive separate from your boot drive. That's true for Logic samples, as well, but you have to go through some gymnastics to relocate the Logic library.

I'm curious about this — it seems like a relic of experience gleaned in the age of mechanical hard drives.

 

Is "stability" really still an issue that can be fixed by relocating sample libraries to a secondary drive? That seems really…quaint.

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Miroslav is "OK" and to my ear a bit better than Logic strings, but the interface is truly clunky.

My current orchestra is BBC SO Discover with a more-than-likely upgrade to Core in 2022.

 

I keep waiting for IK to take my money with an update to the MP software (interface!!!) but no, not yet.

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As a side consideration if you have non-boot volumes available things all around will be faster and more stable if you store sample libraries on a drive separate from your boot drive. That's true for Logic samples, as well, but you have to go through some gymnastics to relocate the Logic library.

I'm curious about this — it seems like a relic of experience gleaned in the age of mechanical hard drives.

 

Is "stability" really still an issue that can be fixed by relocating sample libraries to a secondary drive? That seems really…quaint.

 

Drive speed hasn't changed the physics behind bottlenecks; they still happen for the same reasons. Put too many simultaneous demands on a bus, and you saturate it. When that happens you'll experience some really quaint instability as your DAW software tries to make sense out of chaotic data streams. Keeping your samples off your boot-bus significantly reduces the likelihood of saturating that bus, which can stop you cold and affect your project's integrity in unpredictable ways. Same goes for your work or scratch drive. By keeping separate busses busy you prevent any one of them from choking easily. I run physically separate SSDs for everything, and still encounter occasional instability. Logic still gives me glitches and bug-bites - and some of those have been whoppers. Solving and avoiding them requires the same logic and troubleshooting as in the days of yore and relics, and bus saturation is still frequently the core of the problem. If this hasn't been your experience, good for you. When it does happen to you, look to the same old solutions to get past it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Miroslav is "OK" and to my ear a bit better than Logic strings, but the interface is truly clunky.

My current orchestra is BBC SO Discover with a more-than-likely upgrade to Core in 2022.

 

I keep waiting for IK to take my money with an update to the MP software (interface!!!) but no, not yet.

 

You could always run MP through Sampletank 4 free version. I have Sampletank 4SE, which runs all my IK instruments within. Scaleable GUI, lots of functionality.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I just have one question about East West now before I pull the trigger. When using their samples, do they import into Logic Pro as midi files, or as audio? I really hope it's midi, because I've become very reliant on being able to manipulate sounds that way.
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They don't import, at all. You select an East-West instrument - or any other third-party product - on a virtual instrument/MIDI track, Logic loads that instrument's samples, and you trigger those samples with MIDI data. That is how ALL virtual instruments are used, AFAIK, regardless of who makes them. The only difference between East-West and Logic's own instruments is that East-West (and any other third-party product) appears as an AU Instrument in the "AU Instruments" pop-up menu rather than being listed first among Logic's own instruments. That same pop-up menu is where you'll find all properly installed third-party software & instruments. Look at the names above and below East-West in my earlier post; they're all either instruments (e.g. Arturia) or links to third-party software (e.g. Native Instruments > Kontakt) used to trigger instruments.
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  • 2 weeks later...
If you want concert hall ambience, East West can't be beat, IMO. If you want anything else, you have to use something else.

 

 

That is true of the Symphonic Orchestra, which was recorded in a concert hall by a Classical engineer. It is factually incorrect regarding the Hollywood Orchestra, which was recorded at EW Studios by a film engineer.

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  • 3 weeks later...
OK, I lied, I do have one more question. (For now.) When you use an instrument from EW, do the midi notes appear in Logic Pro's Editor/Piano Roll? Or do they need to be edited within an EW window? I hope it's the former because I've grown quite used to the LPX Piano Roll interface.
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As Ashermusic said, MIDI is MIDI. A piano roll is connected to each individual track. You supply the MIDI data to a track, the track's piano roll displays it. Until you assign a virtual instrument to the track, the notes produce no sound. The same MIDI notes will be used to trigger whatever virtual instrument you assign to that track, regardless of the company that produced that instrument. Logic's piano roll will display, collectively, the MIDI notes of whatever tracks are currently selected, but each track plays only the MIDI notes that exist on its own piano roll, and trigger only the samples associated with the instrument assigned to that track. It's a very straightforward process and signal path.

 

Having just completed a project involving numerous orchestra tracks, I necessarily became reacquainted with some products I haven't used in a long while. I found them all wanting for my immediate purposes, which was the liquid smoothness Diana Krall's orchestra reliably exhibits in her recordings. As was the case ten years back Logic's string instruments were still the least impressive, and East West's Symphonic Orchestra strings still came closest. Regardless of what product I used, however, even at the very lowest note velocities I still heard way too much high-frequency noise during the string section's peaks and swells. All the samples I tried, regardless of product, had a significant bow-noise component. After removing it what remained sounded too much like a failing oscillator, so the bow-noise had to remain for the samples to sound authentic. East West also offered the greatest selection of articulations, and the highest degree of control over player-level characteristics (e.g., level of vibrato). Ultimately I had to shave a lot of the high-end off all the strings for the resulting sound to be anywhere near as smooth as Krall's orchestra. It made me curious about the process by which that orchestra was recorded; evidently somebody, somewhere along the way, had to remove a whole lotta high-end.

 

I do not have the Hollywood Strings product, so can't speak knowledgeably about it, and defer to Ashermusic regarding it. Being able to modify samples' reverb tails would be a useful capability.

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