A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
Space_Crush
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:15 am

Hello there,

New to the board here, but been lurking for about 15 years lol.

I've got a gig coming up where I'm using Mainstage for the first time, so bear with me as I'm getting used to the GUI [long time Logic user]. My set-up is fairly simple,
a single backing track for each song [12-song set], two vocals, 1 guitar and a few keyboard inputs. I've routed compression and verb to aux sends and have made great pains to keep the set-up simple and plug-in light [a few Amp settings, EQ, and a some others].

Currently have the following settings:
I/O Buffer: 128
I/O Safety Buffer [Checked]
Driver Latency set in the middle [64 samples]
8 Cores

And the resulting latency still returns somewhere between 10-20ms every time I refresh and I've noticed a few crackles here and there. I've checked each and every one of my Channel Strips and all of them report to be adding "0.0 ms" of latency--so where is this latency coming from?

Thank you!

- - - - - - -
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB

Hardware Deets:
UA Apollo Twin-X USB-C
UA Apollo Quad Thunderbolt-2
 
User avatar
Maddcow
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:43 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:09 pm

What audio interface are you using? High latency is often the result of poor-quality interface drivers. I’d also recommend unchecking the safety buffer setting unless you really need it. The buffer introduces latency and really isn’t that effective unless your machine is struggling with the load.

Also, are you using Space Designer for reverb? If so, that’s a very well-known resource hog and you’d be best to use a different plugin for reverb. The use of Space Designer would likely be responsible for the audio crackles.
2020 MacBook Pro 16", 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, OSX 11.2.3 RME Fireface UFX+

MainStage v3.4.4 / v3.5.3
 
Space_Crush
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:32 pm

UA Apollo Thunderbolt. I'm using a TAL for reverb.
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB

Hardware Deets:
UA Apollo Twin-X USB-C
UA Apollo Quad Thunderbolt-2
 
User avatar
Maddcow
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:43 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:45 pm

Hmm, the Apollo Thunderbolt should have VERY low latency….that’s weird and I’m a bit stumped as to why you’re experiencing 10-20ms latency. I have a MBP 16” and even if I use the onboard audio, my latency is 9.9ms Roundtrip and 5.0ms Output at 64 samples, 44.1kHz (no safety buffer)….and half of those figures when using my RME UFX+. If I switch the buffer to 128 samples, my latency with the onboard audio hardware is 12.8ms Roundtrip and 6.4ms Output.

Something is very wrong with your setup. Have you tried completely uninstalling your UA drivers and then reinstalling?

I’d also be interested to see what your latency figures are with the onboard hardware. Can you post those?
2020 MacBook Pro 16", 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, OSX 11.2.3 RME Fireface UFX+

MainStage v3.4.4 / v3.5.3
 
Space_Crush
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:31 pm

By on-board hardware do you mean Internal Audio settings?
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB

Hardware Deets:
UA Apollo Twin-X USB-C
UA Apollo Quad Thunderbolt-2
 
User avatar
Maddcow
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:43 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:33 pm

Yes, I mean the Apple internal audio.
2020 MacBook Pro 16", 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, OSX 11.2.3 RME Fireface UFX+

MainStage v3.4.4 / v3.5.3
 
Space_Crush
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:40 pm

With Internal Audio:

I/O Buffer set to 256
I/O Safety Buffer engaged
Driver Latency slider at 75% [128 Samples]

Resulting Latency: 15.3 ms Roundtrip (10.0 ms Output).
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB

Hardware Deets:
UA Apollo Twin-X USB-C
UA Apollo Quad Thunderbolt-2
 
User avatar
Maddcow
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:43 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:44 pm

Ok, first of all, turn off the I/O Safety Buffer. This adds latency but provides no useful benefit unless your machine is really struggling with considerable audio artifacts e.g. pops, crackles etc. Also, are you getting artifacts with that internal audio config? If not, this will confirm that the problem isn’t with your machine itself.

Regardless, with your UA Apollo, you should definitely NOT be experiencing anywhere near the latency you’ve described nor the artifacts you’ve mentioned. Something is wrong, especially if you’re not getting audio artifacts with the internal audio. With the UA Apollo, you should be getting amazing performance and audio quality. So this leads me to wonder if there’s something not quite right with either your macOS installation or UA driver installation. With MainStage, you really need to run a very tight ship in terms of system optimisation if you want exceptional performance, unless you have an Apple Silicon machine…..which are unbelievably efficient.

Do you have enough HDD space to create a new system container and do a fresh install of macOS for testing? A better option would be to forego this and just do a clean install of your drive anyway but if you have the space, creating and setting up a new container is a great way to test things. You can simply boot into either volume when starting/restarting your machine.
2020 MacBook Pro 16", 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, OSX 11.2.3 RME Fireface UFX+

MainStage v3.4.4 / v3.5.3
 
Space_Crush
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:37 am

The artifacts seem to have stopped with both the UA and Internal Audio. I'm currently on 256 with a 10.0 ms Roundtrip (4.7 ms Output).

I'd like to be able to perform at 512 but the latency sky-rockets.

Unfortunately I would be unable to use the HDD space currently.
Comp Deets:
macOS Big Sur
Version: 11.4
MacBook Pro (13-Inch, 2019, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
Processor: 2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
Memory: 8GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 1536 MB

Hardware Deets:
UA Apollo Twin-X USB-C
UA Apollo Quad Thunderbolt-2
 
User avatar
jwhitesides
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:49 pm
Location: Park City
Contact:

Re: Mainstage 3 Latency despite no plugs causing latency

Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:43 am

I'm wondering why you want your buffer to be that large? As someone who runs a much older MacBook Pro with an Apollo twin duo at 44.1 I can generally run it at a 64 or 128 buffer utilizing some pretty complex setups with multiple channel strips and a plethora of plugins per part with no issues. With a newer laptop like yours I would think you could get away with running at least a 64 buffer at 44.1.

For performing live, I have a separate user setup that specifically for live use. That only runs MainStage and Console. Nothing else.
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Mac Pro (Late 2013) 8 core 3ghz 32 gig ram, OSX 11.*, Logic 10.7, UAD 9.* - Macbook Pro (mid 2015) 2.2ghz 16 gig ram OSX 12.*