Switching Between Instruments In A Patch With 1 Controller

Hi folks

 

I want to use an Akai MPK261 to control Mainstage. Rather than using one instrument per Patch, i'll be treating each Patch as a song.

 

What is the most simple way to switch between instruments/channel strips within a patch?

 

I would like to do the following:

 

- select Mainstage Patches using PC change (simple) so that the Akai treats each PC change as a "Bank"

 

- be able to "select" individual instruments in each Patch for different parts of a song...presumably by using Solo/Mute commands via Midi CC. Is it reliable to setup the solo and mute functions of each instrument with an external controller using Midi CCs? It seems a lot easier to change instruments by setting up each Patch to just have one instrument, as opposed to several instruments per Patch.

 

- setup Solo/Mute groups so that when one instrument is solo'd, a group of other instruments is muted, while two instruments (one assigned to the Akai's pads, and another to a second Midi keyboard), are always on.

 

My concern is that a lot more CPU is taken up by having several instruments per Patch than just treating each Patch as an instrument, but am i correct in assuming that you can't run two or more Patches simultaneously?

Apologies if i'm missing something obvious here but it seems there is no way to select one instrument at a time within a Patch.

 

If a Patch can be treated as a "song" in the conventional sense, then surely one would want to be able to change sounds/instruments within a song??

You can definitely configure MainStage with the solo/mute scenario you've mentioned, although it's fairly complicated.....I've been doing something similar for years. I'm typing this on my iPhone and won't be at my computer until tomorrow but I'll try to post back as soon as I can.

 

Another option is to set up patches for parts of a song and then use a set for each song. You could then use PC's to switch between your patches for verse, chorus etc. A further option is to use channel strip aliases for the sounds you use repeatedly (see the MainStage Help if you're not familiar with aliases). This will save considerable system resources. If you're using Kontakt or another multi-timbral instrument (eg Omnisphere, SampleTank etc), definitely look at using the multi-timbral capabilities of these instruments so that you're not using a bunch of separate instances of each plugin. For example, you can configure up to 16 different channels of different sounds using just one instance of a multi-timbral synth....that's a big saving of CPU and RAM compared to using a separate instance for each sound. In fact, typing this has just reminded me that I need to re-configure my own gig template to use Korg M1 LE multi-timbrally instead of separate instances for each sound.....I use about 15 sounds from Korg M1 LE but had forgotten that it's also a multi-timbal synth.

 

I personally prefer to set up MainStage patches for sounds (not songs) and then just call these up as needed in songs, but our individual needs might be very different. I use sets to separate the various synths; because I use PC's to change patches, it doesn't matter what order the sets and patches are in. I also use the ForScore app (on an iPad) for charts and have configured it to change my MainStage patches as I turn to each song; for patch changes within a song, I've configured Buttons on the ForScore charts to send through the PC's as I read through the chart. Or I can send PC's with my Behringer FCB1010.

 

Another option is to set up patches for parts of a song and then use a set for each song. You could then use PC's to switch between your patches for verse, chorus etc. A further option is to use channel strip aliases for the sounds you use repeatedly (see the MainStage Help if you're not familiar with aliases). This will save considerable system resources.

 

Thanks so much for the reply @Maddcow

 

Ultimately i can see that what i need are 3 to 4 keyboard controllers set up at all times, but this still means having a solo/mute scenario within a patch because some sounds would be the same for all songs and some would change per and mid song.

 

So, let's say i want it setup like this so that 4 keyboard controllers are routed to their own Channel Strip each with their own Midi channel:

 

- Keyboard 1: Rhodes/EP ready for every song

 

- Keyboard 2: 1 Sampler instrument..same for every song

 

-Keyboard 3: 1 Sampler instrument with a different preset for each song

 

- Keyboard 4: Synths/instruments that can be selected mid song.

 

If i were to do the above as a Set per Song, it would mean that each time i want to change instruments on Keyboard 4 or presets on Keyboard 3, i would need to select a new Patch in MS...but to maintain the live rig aspect of Keyboards 1 and 2 always being ready, each Patch that i make would always need to have the same instance of those two Channel strips. If so, would this be where the alias channel strips would come into play?

 

It just seems strange to have to call up a new Patch to keep changing sounds on 2 Keyboards mid song, while effectively reloading two sounds that should remain constant all the time. Surely this would cause unwanted gaps in the sound when switching between Patches?

Another idea would be to set up the instrumenrs that are always constant at either Set or Concert level, but this kills all other Channel strip audio as stated in the manual...indeed, when i tried this i didn't have sound from the other instruments anymore.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've got audio channel strips at the concert level that are "always on" but also have other audio channel strips at patch level. I've had this in place for years and it works perfectly. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something?

 

Here's my solo/mute setup. I have this configured at concert level with 3 audio channel strips. Clicking on the solo button for the desired channel strip will automatically mute the other 2 channels. I've also got control changes (using MIDI note values way outside my normal playing range) configured so I can toggle the solo buttons via MIDI.

 

STRIP 1 SOLO BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: ---

Strip 2 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 2 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

Strip 3 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 3 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

STRIP 1 MUTE BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

 

STRIP 2 SOLO BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: ---

Strip 1 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 1 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

Strip 3 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 3 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

STRIP 2 MUTE BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

 

STRIP 3 SOLO BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: ---

Strip 1 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 1 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

Strip 2 Channel Mute Range Min: Muted

Strip 2 Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

STRIP 3 MUTE BUTTON MAPPING

Channel Mute Range Min: ---

Channel Mute Range Max: Muted

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've got audio channel strips at the concert level that are "always on" but also have other audio channel strips at patch level. I've had this in place for years and it works perfectly. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something?

 

Yeah it didn't make sense to me either but when i tried creating channel strips at Concert level it muted all the sound from the channel strips at Patch level. I'll have a look at this again to see what's going on. Thanks a lot for that mapping list

I tried it again at Concert level and all patch channel strips don't have sound.

 

After reading this thread http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=90851 it appears that this is normal behaviour if only one keyboard controller is being used is in my case.

 

So i followed the tip in that thread and created a second keyboard object which i then assigned to the Concert level strips..this allows use of strips at all levels simultaneously from one keyboard only.

 

So, to clarify, for instruments that are always used would it be better for CPU efficiency to create Aliases or Concert level strips?

A CONCERT level Channel strip will be available in all SETS and PATCHES. A SET level strip will be available in that SET and its PATCHES.

 

If you are not in a particular patch or set those sound will not be heard. If you select the concert you won't be able to play or hears things from the sets and patches within.

 

I have one controller and can control things at the concert, set, and patch level. It just matter which one you are in when you assign its parameters.

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is if you are using alias's and mute it at the original source it mutes all alias's in your concert.

 

Hope this helps

thanks for the info @Pauly 6 String.

 

So, for instruments that are always used during a show/all songs would it be better for CPU efficiency to create Aliases or Concert level strips?

 

Also, which is the fastest method to switch between instruments (ie method with minimal lag when switching)...mute/solo or bypassing an instrument plugin?

Depending on how many sounds (channel strips) you want to switch between I use the bypass function and assign a foot pedal or switch to it in toggle mode. I then assign the switch/pedal to one sound (channel strip) and assign the other to the same switch/pedal and set it to be bypassed and invert the parameter range.