Backing Tracks Question

Ok I've used Logic for years and I'm just new to "trying" to use MainStage for an upcoming project.

However, there's something I'm totally not understanding:

I am familiar and fine with using MainStage for keyboards. For this project though I've worked in Logic and produced roughly 5 or 6 tracks for each of 27 songs. I've bounced all tracks down to audio stems to bring into MainStage.

I was able to make a template for 2 keyboards and now 8 backing tracks with "Playback" on each track. What I thought I could do was to use this template and then make patches for each individual song. I was hoping to put the audio stems into the Playback tracks and then new stems into the new patches. However, what I've noticed is that when I put the stems in one patch they appear in all of the concert's patches and also in the Concert template itself. Clearly there's something I'm not understanding. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

paul

You need to put the playback on a set or patch level or you could create a longer file including markers and use the next marker button to change tunes.

Thanks for your reply Eric.

I actually put 8 instances of the playback plugin at the set level. The problem I found though was that when I add a new patch and inserted an audio file into Playback, that new audio file appears in all other patches in that set.

What I ended up doing last night was basically having a blank template and then creating blank patches. In each patch I imported the audio stems which created tracks with Playback in them. This works fine, but for each new patch I have to remap/reassign faders, meters, etc. I was just hoping for a more efficient way of assigning all of these things at the Concert or Set level and then changing the audio files in the Playback sections of each new patch.

Thank you,

paul

You're welcome Paul.

 

You could use the set level as a song basis. Then apply all your patches for the first song.

Option drag the "song 1" folder down to create a new Set with song two. Create the desired patches and so on.

This way you shouldn't have to remap anything.

Thank you again Eric,

I tried that too last night, but when I inserted audio stems into Playback in one set they appeared in all other sets as well, so no luck. 

The way I'm working now is a bit more time consuming but I've run into another roadblock. What I need to find now is a way to have a button under each fader which provides a label for the track. At the risk of hijacking my own thread, any help here sure would be great.

Thank you,

paul

OK figured out the idea of the Text button to label the faders - so all good on that one. 

basically, "what Eric said", but something seems to be going wrong...

 

the general "best practice" is create a set per song and then add the playback channel strips at the set "at the top of a particular song". the reason why folks do this is so that you as a keyboard player can switch patches during playback of a song, so literally during the song, and the playback of backing tracks won't stop when switching from one patch to the other or back again. This is inline with the hierarchy that MainStage has... Concert -> Set -> Patch.  

 

There should not be playbacks at concert level. If you see them, that's odd. You should have playbacks at each set level. There's also a group parameter on the playbacks to have them start/stop/move together. Perhaps that's set wrong?

 

I use playbacks on a couple of songs in one of my projects. It works well. My "normal" approach is that each song is a set in MS, precisely because of MS' hierarchy, so I'll put regular channel strips at the set level, and others at the patch level. Have to pay some attention to the MIDI layer editor but it all makes sense (eventually ).

Thanks Michael,

I'm quite sure I started with the wrong premise when trying to get a handle on Playbacks. I put 8 Playback tracks at the concert level with the idea that I could map and assign them for the complete concert. I left them empty of audio stems. Then, I created patches and each patch came up with the 8 Playback tracks (I also added instrument tracks to be played live - no problem here). From there I went to the first patch and loaded an audio stem onto each of the Playback devices. I assumed that these files would only play in this particular patch. However, as stated previously, the audio contained in each of the Playback devices now appears on all patches; and if I change the file on another patch it overwrites all of the others in the same channel number.  I did try using new sets for each song but with the same result.

What I'm doing now is starting each patch as a stripped down (nothing in it) patch. For each new patch I import all of the audio stems I need and this creates a channel strip with a Playback device for each channel. It works as planned, but then I have to go back and reassign/remap the parameters for faders and meters on each patch. With about 40 or so songs to do now, I'm just trying to find a way of speeding things up.

Also, you mentioned the MIDI layer editor - I'm really not familiar with it, so I'll have to find where it is and what it does.

Thank you,

paul

Just delete the playbacks at concert level and add new ones at set level for each song, even if a song only has one patch. Consistency will payoff somewhere

Thanks Michael,

I've sort of being doing the same thing with patches (copying and deleting) and it does work but still requires a bit more time to map and assign some things. Hey, but compared to hauling around reel to reel recorders and syncing them to midi, and dragging leslies and piles of keyboards, it's time I quit complaining about a few extra minutes. At least none of this hurts the back!

paul

yeah... remember, anything that is at a concert level will "fire" in all sets and patches, it's the hierarchy of a MainStage concert... ditto at set level, but then everything there "fires" at the set and all the patches underneath it. This is why folks using playbacks or loopers are setting up one song per set. It's just the most logical way to work.

 

You *might* be able to save some time, by using the Duplicate Patch and/or Duplicate Set option under the Edit menu while building this thing.

 

You would take the first song that you've setup with mappings etc (presuming you've got start, stop with fade mapped the same song to song/patch to patch). So after you have the first song "done", just duplicate it the # of times you would need for your concert. You'll have to rename all the copies, and drag/drop the proper audio stems to all the subsequent sets/patches (you'd have to do this anyway), but at least you're not starting at zero for all your mappings.

 

I would also, while you're building this, save as with some kind of sequential number as part of the file name, saving often. So concert file would be named My Concert v1, then v2, then v3. This has saved my bacon more than a few times... If something goes wrong, I just go back to a version that was known to work.  Your concert files are going to get BIG by the way as all these stems will be included in the concert file (the usual way of working at any rate). Don't freak out about that, but if you want to actually see what's in your concert file just right mouse click in Finder on the concert file and "Show Package Contents"...

Great suggestions, Michael and I'll be using them for sure. The more I play with MainStage the more I'm liking it.

Thank you so much,

paul

yeah, there's a lot to like there's also some real headscratchers... not sure what your genre music is, or how big your crowds will be, but if you're really pushing backing tracks for every song, it *might* make sense to play out the stems from a 2nd machine. The consensus amongst profs is generally Ableton for tracks playback, and folks who actually play keys go thru MainStage. This brings a layer of complexity and cost, but it also means the show goes on. If a software synth plugin crashes (okay, essentially never happens), but should it also take out the backing tracks with it? For me, I use playback objects and haven't synced up Ableton but purchased it and set up my rig to actually do this, just never did it because I wasn't forced into doing it. Basically MainStage hasn't failed on me so why take the next step if I don't have to was my thinking. This year our lineup includes a drummer who works with Ableton Live, so we're looking at having him manage his own loops and what not - these would have to be synced. I could run stems from his machine or from mine - it wouldn't matter. Oh yeah, I also send clock for tempo purposes to the guitar player's rig (tempo-locked effects) - that was really easy

I have Ableton and have used it fairly extensively, and I've flirted with the idea of using it for this project. And boy were you right about the size of the project. I will be using a Kronos (88) and Motif (61) so I'd be fine without the keyboard capability of MainStage. Gonna have to give this some thought.

Thank you again for your help.

paul

so you're not going to do any synth work or mixing of the Kronos or Motif and you're literally *only* doing backings from stems created in Logic??? so literally *only* backing tracks/stems?  well, you've already seen that MS can do this and you already know that Live will do it too. Goodness though... it's exactly mangling audio this way where Live really, really shines... I know this is the LogicProHelp forum... but wow... really hard not to say "backings go to Live"... at any rate, you've come to understand the hierarchy from concert, sets and patches in MS!

Actually, I'm looking now to leave the Kronos and Motif in the studio and not take them to play out for this project. Right now I'm looking to get a decent semi-weighted (and light) midi controller.

The other thing I'm considering is bouncing the complete song and using it in Playback - as opposed to individual stems.   Like you said, the size of the Concert gets to be quite prohibitive and I probably don't really need the control that individual stems would provide.

paul

If you're only playing tracks, I recommend using Live also. I've encountered some weird things using MainStage for tracks and believe this is MainStage's weakest area.

If you're only playing tracks, I recommend using Live also. I've encountered some weird things using MainStage for tracks and believe this is MainStage's weakest area.

I agree. I did the the same mistake as the OP setup playback modules according to stems and expected I could make MS load in a new set of stems pr patch (song)

Copying the playback modules pr song is a solution, but you end up with a vast no of channels, and if you want to change some mapping for eg "backup vocals stem", you have to go through each and every song and do the same change.