Hanging notes in Mainstage [solved in Mainstage 2.0.1/2.1.1]

I get hanging notes when playing software instruments in Mainstage. This happens fairly often, usually within a minute or so of playing. It does not matter which software instrument I am using [Correction: It now turns out that in Mainstage 2, the problem occurs (almost?) exclusively in EVB3 and EVP88]. Playing the hanging note again on the keyboard makes it sound as if the sostenuto pedal is used, i.e. the hanging note sounds again but is not stopped when releasing the key. However, the problem occurs also when I have not been using the pedals at all. When I continue playing, over the course of time, other notes start to hang as well, seemingly at random. I can only stop those notes from sounding/sustaining by giving the panic command, or one of the MIDI all sounds off/all notes off commands.

This happened in Mainstage 1, and I was hoping it would be fixed in Mainstage 2, but this is not the case. So I thought it might be a problem with the Yamaha USB MIDI dirver. A new version (1.2.0) was recently released, but the problem persists.

I do not get this problem when performing with the same configuration and software instruments in Logic Pro.

Does anyone else have this problem in Mainstage? Any advice on how to further investigate the source of the problem?

Here is my configuration:

- Mac Pro 4x2.93 GHz, 6 GB

- Yamaha Clavinova CLP-170, connected via USB for MIDI input

- Korg NanoKontrol, connected via USB for MIDI input (the hanging notes occur also when the NanoKontrol USB is disconnected).

- M-Audio FireWire Solo, connected via USB for audio input/output

Thanks,

Eelco

=== Update:

I just did some more tests.

First I visited the local music shop with my MacBook and connected via USB to a different Yamaha keyboard they had there, using the same Yamaha USB-MIDI driver on my computer: No hanging notes. So the problem must be with my Clavinova.

I then bought a Cakewalk/Roland USB-MIDI interface at the shop, and connected that via a MIDI cable to the Clavinova at home, instead of using the Clavinova USB. The hanging notes were still there.

So now I know that the Yamaha USB-MIDI driver is not causing the problem. It must be internal to the MIDI electronics/software of my Clavinova CLP-170, in combination with Mainstage. Luckily I could return the MIDI interface to the shop. They were very helpful.

The funny thing is that the problem is very much prevalent in Mainstage, especially when playing the EVB3 and EP88 instruments. Mainstage is completely unusable for me when playing these instruments. But I do not have the issue at all when playing in Logic Pro. So there must be a difference between Logic and Mainstage, in which Logic is more robust to some vague MIDI anomaly in my piano.

Unfortunately, the firmware of the Yamaha piano can not be updated, as far as I know. So I will file a Mainstage bug report with Apple. But since the Clavinova is not exactly a stage instrument, and there is no one else on this forum or elsewhere on the net reporting similar problems, it will probably not get a high priority.

So I will file a Mainstage bug report with Apple. But since the Clavinova is not exactly a stage instrument, and there is no one else on this forum or elsewhere on the net reporting similar problems, it will probably not get a high priority.

There is nothing Apple can do, because this issue seems to be depended on your hardware. If the hardware doesn't send a note-off, the note will hang. There is no way to fix this in software.

I believe the hardware does send the note off, Mainstage (or the software instrument plug-ins within Mainstage) simply does not get it or interpret it properly.

Otherwise, why wouldn't I get the exact same problem, playing the same instrument, connected in the same way, in Logic Pro 9? And why do I see it much more often with the EVB3 and EVP88 in Mainstage than with other software instruments in Mainstage?

The problem is probably much more subtle than not sending note offs. Perhaps something is just a bit shaky in the timing or some other parameter of the MIDI data that is generated on my instrument, to which Logic is more robust than Mainstage. Then there is something that Apple can do: Make Mainstage as robust as Logic when it comes to just-off MIDI data. Although I think the chances are slim since this does not seem to be a very widespread problem, and they might argue that my piano is out of specs.

The simplest solution would be for me to look for a new keyboard controller.

The problem is probably much more subtle than not sending note offs. Perhaps something is just a bit shaky in the timing or some other parameter of the MIDI data that is generated on my instrument, to which Logic is more robust than Mainstage.

Can you download "MIDI Monitor" and record an example of MIDI events that trigger that behavior? Notes via MIDI are not timing critical.

Thanks! That was a very good suggestion.

It turns out that for the hanging notes, MIDI monitor shows two note-on messages at different time stamps (only up to a few tenths of seconds apart though), with different velocities, and often with note on/offs for other keys in between. And then, and I think this is the culprit: Two note-off messages for the hanging note with exactly the same time stamp. This is obviously a technical error in the Yamaha piano, as it is physically impossible to play that way!

But I think that Mainstage reads these two MIDI note-offs with the exact same time stamp, and executes only one of them, leaving the other one sounding. This is then a Mainstage bug, isn't it? If Mainstage would interpret these two MIDI note-offs as they are intended, the result would be an almost inaudible very short duration double sounding of the note, caused by this glitch in the MIDI keyboard. Now, because Mainstage apparently ditches one of the two note-offs if they have the same time stamp, this small glitch turns into an unworkable configuration.

With this knowledge, I can now trigger these hanging notes very easily, within a few seconds, in Mainstage/EVB3 and Mainstage/EVP88, by playing the same key repeatedly very quickly with two fingers. This does not work in Mainstage/EXS24 however or in Logic/EVB3 or Logic/EVP88! I see the same pattern of MIDI note-on/offs that produces these hanging notes in MIDI monitor, but the notes do not hang when playing the EXS24 in Mainstage, or when playing any instrument in Logic.

Sure. Here it is.

glissando.mMon.zip

MIDI Monitor saved file. Playing a glissando with two anomalous double note-on/offs, for A3 and G3, causing hanging notes when played through Mainstage/EVB3.

And here is a screenshot of MIDI Monitor, with the two anomalous double note-offs selected.

I did this test with the glissando to check whether the two distinct note-ons for the same note, that precede the double note-offs, were the result of actual double piano key movements, or not. With a glissando it is much easier to relate what you have been playing with the MIDI monitor output, compared to when playing a tremolo on the same note, which I did before.

While I must have pushed and released each of the keys on the piano only once during the glissando, the piano anomalously sends the MIDI signals for two note-ons, at different (but close) time stamps, and subsequently two note-offs at the same time stamp.

Screenshot of MIDI Monitor. Playing a glissando with two anomalous double note-on/offs, for A3 and G3, causing hanging notes when played through Mainstage/EVB3.

I'm coming up with the exact same problem with the same insturments in mainstage!

I'm using a keystation pro 88. And it only happens in mainstage... I was hoping mainstage 2 would kink it out but no luck.

So I'm waiting for a solution!!

Have you reported it to Apple? Here is the URL:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/mainstage.html

I got a friendly reply asking for some more information on my system, after I send in my bug report. So they are certainly already aware of the problem at Apple. But it would not hurt for you to report it as well, so that it is registered as a problem with more than one keyboard controller.

I have put a button mapped to the C7 (top) note on my keyboard in Mainstage, and assigned it to the all notes-off action for the software instrument. That way I can at least quickly stop the sound when it is hanging.

I do not use Mainstage in front of an audience (yet), just for jamming at home. So in the meantime I have reverted to using Logic Pro when playing with the EVB3 and EVP88 instruments.

Not so great news: The exact same problem seems to be back in Mainstage 2.1 (!)

I will resubmit the bug to Apple.

Update: Fixed again in 2.1.1!

Well, it finally happened: Mainstage 2 seized during a gig last Saturday, running Ivory, and Logic samples: pop strings, electric piano and aggressive fretless.

For a few months, we had had similar problems to those described above: hanging notes and chords, with information coming from the four MIDI kbds - two Yamaha digital pianos (P70s) and two Axiom 49.

For some reason, on Saturday, with a few thousand people waiting in Steenbergen in the Netherlands, Mainstage failed. My sound engineer told me that there was no memory problem indicated in Mainstage, no CPU overload. Mainstage simply stopped processing the MIDI information and producing the samples. We tried rebooting, writing a fresh Mainstage concert, etc., with no incoming signal processing, but to no avail. The show had to be abandoned with no piano and no bass.

I have kept faith with Apple, Logic etc for 3.5 years, but this 'crash' has cost me around 5000 euros, and I'm not really interested in the whys and wherefores, other than for curiosities sake: I am forced to go back to an analogue system, until such time as I can be assured that Mainstage is truly stable: it doesn't matter to me whether it's a problem with USB / MIDI, overloaded FW to the MOTU soundcard ... it just can't happen again.

I am really upset about this: I've invested heavily in my Apple-based system, both in terms of money and in terms of time and arguments with other band members, who have always argued against my using such a 'volatile' system. I have seen that others have had similar problems. I have just one thing to say:

DON'T USE MAINSTAGE LIVE!!!!!!!

Well, it finally happened: Mainstage 2 seized during a gig last Saturday, running Ivory, and Logic samples: pop strings, electric piano and aggressive fretless.

 

For a few months, we had had similar problems to those described above: hanging notes and chords, with information coming from the four MIDI kbds - two Yamaha digital pianos (P70s) and two Axiom 49.

 

For some reason, on Saturday, with a few thousand people waiting in Steenbergen in the Netherlands, Mainstage failed. My sound engineer told me that there was no memory problem indicated in Mainstage, no CPU overload. Mainstage simply stopped processing the MIDI information and producing the samples. We tried rebooting, writing a fresh Mainstage concert, etc., with no incoming signal processing, but to no avail. The show had to be abandoned with no piano and no bass.

 

I have kept faith with Apple, Logic etc for 3.5 years, but this 'crash' has cost me around 5000 euros, and I'm not really interested in the whys and wherefores, other than for curiosities sake: I am forced to go back to an analogue system, until such time as I can be assured that Mainstage is truly stable: it doesn't matter to me whether it's a problem with USB / MIDI, overloaded FW to the MOTU soundcard ... it just can't happen again.

 

I am really upset about this: I've invested heavily in my Apple-based system, both in terms of money and in terms of time and arguments with other band members, who have always argued against my using such a 'volatile' system. I have seen that others have had similar problems. I have just one thing to say:

 

DON'T USE MAINSTAGE LIVE!!!!!!!

I had a similar situation where my perfect MS set up gets goofy because of one thing or another. Trying to fix it during the live performance doesn't cut it.

I still use Mainstage live, but I have to comment on something else.

I was playing guitar at a live show and the guitar string broke. the 'B' string to be exact. So now I have to say:

DON'T PLAY YOUR GUITAR LIVE!!!!!!!

He-he ... good one!

B-strings are easier to fix than the MIDI assignment for 4 keyboards and 20 controllers!

And anyway, who books guitarists?!?!?!??!?!

He-he ... good one!

 

B-strings are easier to fix than the MIDI assignment for 4 keyboards and 20 controllers!

 

And anyway, who books guitarists?!?!?!??!?!

Tell me about it. I hate it when I go to play a horn part and the sound is cut short after 1 second - or the volume faders somehow are all set to +6 - or the specific sound isn't there at all.

Although I still use MS live (keyboards), I am oh so leery about it.

When I play out solo - it's all analog setup (and iPod).

Hi there, I hope this offers some insight to the notes hanging posting that appeared originally in this thread. I use Mainstage live, playing through a somewhat complicated setup. I play the Warr Guitar, a 12 string beast that has bass and guitar outputs and dual midi outputs (through 13 pin connectors from hexaphonic piezo pickups), one for the bass side and the other for the melody side. These piezo outputs go to their respective interfaces, and I merge their MIDI outputs in separate channels to a single MIDI cable that goes into my sound card (MOTU Ultralike MK3 hybrid). From the sound module I go into my MacBook Pro and I use both internal and external synths extensively.

Because of the fact that the sound is triggered from playing strings on a tapping instrument, the amount of information transferred by MIDI is substantial, way above of what you would get playing two separate keyboards.

When I first started, I had an M-Audio Fast Track Pro interface, that has a USB connector, and I had the exact same problem.... notes hanging once in a while. I also had some cases where most of the hanging happened with one specific software synth, but sometimes it happened with external synths... so it was set to be either a Mainstage or sound interface problem.

I got then the MOTU.... and since then I had 0 occurrences of this. I would suggest that you try another card. I did my own research, and there are people happy with USB modules, so this may be specific to M-Audio.... from my side, I did not even get a reply from M-Audio when I had the problem... so my recommendation would be to stay away from USB and M-Audio and try another sound module.

Gustavo

Hi Gustavo (thewildest),

I'm using the latest Mainstage 3.2.4 connecting 2 usb keyboards - I get stuck notes.

This happens when I do a Organ hand Gliss, lots of notes involved.

You decribed your chain but how do you exactly go from your Motu to your MacBookPro? via USB?

Thx

I was wondering if you get your problem resolved. I had the same problem when connecting my FP30. I noticed that my FP30 was sending the note in 2 channels simultaneously

(1 and 5). I disabled one of them and voilla, MainStage back to normal operation. Note that I didn't have the same problem on a regular midi controller.

Cheers