A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Negative Harmony

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:14 am

This is kind of interesting.
Now it makes going to existing MIDI files more interesting. :mrgreen:
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
User avatar
Eriksimon
Posts: 6915
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Negative Harmony

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:54 am

OK. I think I can sort of hear what this does, but I am sorely missing two things:
1. Technical explanation (what formula is applied to the notes?
2. How to do this? Script? App? Where to get this script/app/function?
Why did the chicken cross the Mobius ring?

miMac Intel i5 3.6 GHz 16 GB RAM/OS X 12.6 (Sierra)/Logic Pro X 10.4.4/MXL 990/Marantz MPM-1000/U-Phoria UMC204HD/E-MU XBoard 49/Studiologic CMK 149/Akai LPD8
 
User avatar
Alan Shields
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:04 pm
Location: Ireland - The Land of Ire

Re: Negative Harmony

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:04 am

Eric, it's nothing new, it is a traditional composing technique. I don't know about scripts or apps, I usually do it manually but I'm sure if you look there are probably some apps for it available somewhere. Chances are that it is something that you already employ; you just don't call it negative harmony.

To answer your first question here is a pretty good explanation of what's involved. Enjoy.
HTH,
Alan.
Context is Everything.

Logic Pro 10.4.6. Mac OS 10.14.6
Mac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015) - 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5 - 32 GB 1867 MHz DDR3
2.5 Tonnes of (antique?) equipment gathering dust in their racks
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:09 am

Eriksimon wrote:
OK. I think I can sort of hear what this does, but I am sorely missing two things:
1. Technical explanation (what formula is applied to the notes?
2. How to do this? Script? App? Where to get this script/app/function?


This guy explains it well here.
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:25 pm

Alan Shields wrote:
Eric,
To answer your first question here is a pretty good explanation of what's involved. Enjoy.
HTH,

Alan.

I saw that video too. I was finishing up on scripts based on that video as well as the other video I posted.

Here's some more Negative Harmony stuff I've been working on.

This video shows an Apple Loop (MIDI) that I'm playing and applying the Negative Harmony scripts I'm working on.
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:10 pm

More experimenting with Negative Harmony.


What would be kind of funny is if I did a Negative Harmony on a already Negative Harmony song. :mrgreen:
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:54 pm

I found another description of Negative Harmony.
I added the ability to change note positions as well.
Still experimenting with this.

iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:09 pm

More experimenting with Negative Harmony...


More experimenting with Negative Harmony but with different scale/keys applied...
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:03 pm

Added some more parameters to my script.
Now I can explore a scale but with multiple keys of that same scale.
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
ValliSoftware
Topic Author
Posts: 597
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Negative Harmony

Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:48 am

Added another option that I call Polarize to my Negative Harmony script.
iMac 10.8.5 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB Ram - Logic 9.1.8 (1700.67) (32-bit)
MacBook Pro 10.8.5 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 6GB Ram - Logic Pro X (10.2)
MacMini 10.13.6 2GHz Intel Core i7 16GB Ram - GarageBand 10.4.5 Logic Pro X (10.4.1)
iPad Mini iOS 12 - iOS GarageBand 2.0.1
Qosimo X70-A 10.9.5 Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor 32GB DDR3L 1600MHz memory, 2-500GB 7200rpm hard drives - Logic Pro X (10.0.7)
 
MikeRobinson
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:42 pm
Location: Just south of Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA.

Re: Negative Harmony

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pm

"So, did J.S. Bach actually assign notes to the letters of his last name and then use these to 'sign his name' to his compositions in the days before copyright?"

One wonders, but it was certainly true that many early composers "were mathematicians." (Or, if not, that they certainly recognized the very-mathematical foundations of what they were doing.) Which is part of what makes these two very-different interpretations of "essentially the same idea" so interesting in their contrasts. Each of them focuses on entirely-different, yet fundamentally joined, harmonic principles:

  • The first presenter point out how some notes naturally want to "resolve" either up or down to their neighbors, and points out how a "negative" corollary exists on the other side of the Circle of Fifths. (The arrows here are bi-directional hence "two arrows.")
  • Meanwhile, the next presenter observes the "difference between one note and the next, in half-steps," and points out that you can instead go in the opposite direction ... and thereby arrives at exactly the same mathematical(!) conclusion.

So, believe it or not, both presenters are arriving at exactly the same mathematical conclusion, albeit in two apparently very-different ways. Even though the approaches are different, the outcome is actually the same. [Western] music is very much about intervals, and any interval can be inverted.

The purely-mathematical underpinnings of Western music have always interested me although I have never fully understood them. I do remember watching one video – URL long lost although I'd love to be reminded of it – where the presenter basically said: "I could wander into higher-order calculus(!) right now if I wanted to, :shock: but I won't, since I know this would scare you all off."

(Hell, "music theory class" pretty much scared me off anyway – until, many decades later, I began to appreciate what it was actually all about.)
- - - - -
Mike Robinson
"I wanna quit being a computer consultant and become a composer and arranger at age fifty-four."
Logic Pro X, MacBook Pro, 88-key MIDI controller.
Just south of Chattanooga, Tennessee, USA
HELP SUPPORT OUR FORUM: