soccerpie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I am somewhat new to remixing and would like to remix this song. How do you figure out the key note of a song (using Logic) ? I don't know if this has been posted before but if any of have any tips or tricks or know how to do this, it would be a great help This is the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iHFE0MuCkk: Emma - Crashing Down Thank you In the remix pack, it doesn't give any information regarding the key note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If you don't know how to work out the key by ear,Logic is only gonna help you so far. Music is the answer. (It's in Gb/F#,btw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylark Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If you don't know how to work out the key by ear,Logic is only gonna help you so far. Logic is only gonna help you get so far, even if you do know how to work out the key by ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerpie Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 I feel like most people just get a simple accoustic instrument and play with it until you find the keys that sound right with the original song. Is that the way to go if the artisit doesn't provide the MIDI files? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 With a few exceptions,the key is the key. It's not subjective. But yes,playing along is as good a way as any to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidlogic Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Typically a good rule of thumb is the chord the song starts with is the Key of the song. If it starts on the V chord you will hear its cadence resolving to a I chord. If not then the last chord of the song is usually a good bet thats the key of the song because the V-I cadence or resolution is what your ear wants to hear for finality.. Also when a verse starts over it usually tags to a 1 chord (the songs key) The vocalist have to find their note with the I chord. Not being a jerk or anything but Music theory really isn't that hard at all. Take some lessons or hit youtube to learn about chord scales and basic chord progressions. It will really set you free when you are listening to a chord progression go by. Also practice hearing the difference between major and minor. I hear a lot of "Remixers" completely screw this up. They start mixing a major song with minor parts and it sounds stupid. Anyway enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT1 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Great tips from LiquidLogic above. Many songs do start on the root chord of the key. However in the case of the song above, the key root chord is the third chord you hear (in a 4 chord / 4 bar cycle). This is the chord under the lyrics "...away, ...from myself". The key is minor. Listen to the bass note. This is your key. Something minor. Now work it out. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT1 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Logic is only gonna help you get so far, even if you do know how to work out the key by ear. Love this!!! Music rocks. No shortcuts. When you do it for real you can't beat the feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALEFATALE Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 what i do is open any instrument, usually piano or simple saw-wave synth, loop the chord progression and play along until i find the root key, should only take you a minute or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'm not talented and can't figure it out by ear. One of the things I do when I'm trying to find the key of a song is that I would play a note or try to play a solo or melody on a keyboard and try to hear if the notes I played goes well with the song. By doing that I find several notes that match and play and the scale of the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidFunk Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Use a program called mixed in key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twister Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I agree that many songs start from the key, but that's what makes it a dangerous oversimplification. There are songs that don't even GO to key major or minor. I would recommend starting from picking up the lead melody and see if it matches any diatonic scale. Then if you're unsure, try recognizing chords, figure their tonal structure and compare them to possible diatonic scales. Carrying melodies and chords tend to match the key scales most of the time, while harmonic and melodic minor scales are common in key minor as well. If you need clarification, I can give you an example when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlowell Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Much of my music modulates from key to key quite a bit. Frankly, I often don't know what key it really is in. The best way to find out might be to try all 12 keys and see (in the score view) which key gives you the least number of natural accidentals. Anybody have any quick tricks for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelonyc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Break the song into sections. Take the midi tracks you have and put into score editor, if you see a section with different sharps or flats, you have changed key.. General rule - loop a section, jam along till you find the most notes that fit.. if they don't fit as the song progresses, you've changed key, or transposed.. Figure out notes that fit for that section etc.. Some jazz makes it a point to change key often so there really is no set key.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Some jazz makes it a point to change key often so there really is no set key.. Not really. If you're in C and there's an A7 chord,then technically at that point you're in D,A7 being the dominant of D,but more often than not it's used as a tonally different colour,while still being VI of C.Stick some extensions on and the interchangeability is more obvious. A7b10,b9,b13 gives a flatter tonality more akin to C.See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelonyc Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Yes, you made a specific example, which does show key.. I am quoting "Gary Burton" from his "Jazz Improvisation" course on Coursera.org.. Purposely I have written jams, which change, key and modality so frequently there was no key, or you could say 3 bars in one key or modality, then shifting, and shifting.. Result was kind of wandering musical wall paper... not the kind of music I would pursue anymore, but I did it as a test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spann Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 You can always go to this web page: https://www.scales-chords.com/chordscalefinder.php Simply type in your chord progression and presto it then tells you all of the available keys that will work with the chord progression you entered. Hope this helps happy strumming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Actually, Score View is very helpful because it lets you look at one possible interpretation of what you hear. And, yes, adding a key-signature and noticing which one has the least amount of (or, no) added sharps or flats (accidentals ...) is a good way to do it. Another way is to assume the key of "C" (no sharps or flats ...) and simply notice where sharps or flats have been added by the software. Start by noticing where a note has been altered consistently, "every time it appears." Then, count how many there are. Or: "how many of the bands on Piano Roll which contain blobs are dark-colored bands, corresponding to "black keys?" (This method is less exact, since some accidentals correspond to white keys, but it works for most key-signatures.) You will notice that all key-signatures consist of a certain sequence of sharps/flats, and that more sharps/flats are always added to the key-signature, always on the right-hand-side without taking any of the others away. If there are "three sharps," they will be "F - C - G." "Three flats" will be "B - E - A." Also bear in mind that "one note's sharp is its next door neighbor's flat." (A comment which might sound funny to those of you who live in London or some other big city.) F-sharp is G-flat and so on. There are rules-of-thumb that will tell you which key corresponds to each number of flats or sharps – or, let the software do it for you. Accidentals which are "part of the key (signature)" will occur every time: they actually serve to describe the spacing (interval) between the notes, and thus create "what the key generally 'sounds like.'" Accidentals which are "accidents" (so to speak) will be one-offs – exceptions to the rule made for artistic reasons. These "accidents" also clearly mark a clearly audible change to the perceived sound, occurring at exactly that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolab Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Listen to the last note in a verse. It will often tell you what key the song is in -and then you have to find out if it is major or minor. Sometimes it might be in the parallel key. In this case she ends on F# - F#major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx509 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I found this thread by searching for the same question. I also play guitar and I usually find the key that way, but I wanted to find a quicker way by just looking at the piano roll rather than getting out my guitar and plucking around. It seems that there should be some really easy way of figuring this out directly in the piano roll, but it doesn't seem like this is an option yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 One way to do it might be to look at the Score display. Notice now where all the "sharps or flats" are showing up (if you've initially set "key of C" which is no sharps/flats). Those "sharps and flats" form a definite pattern which is what a "key signature" on a printed score is actually showing you. (If there are "three sharps," they are always F-C-G, and so on.) Fiddle around with the key-signature setting until most if not all of the "sharp/flat symbols" go away. And, as someone in this thread said (many years ago, now ...) "basic music theory" really isn't all that hard. There are plenty of very good videos on the subject: Toby Rush (tobyrush.com) actually did a book of cartoons. There are really only a small handful of things that you need to know to really help you out – you actually don't have to go that deep into it to come away with some really useful nuggets. You'll find yourself actually saying, "gee, that actually makes sense!" With practice, you can actually hear what the key-signature is most likely to be. Because of "physics reasons" that we don't need to dive into, the various keys sound different, and not just at a superficial level. There's a certain discernible "pull" as the lines of melody play through: "it's not just the pitch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 To Onyx509: You can select a chord and that is then named in the PR editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx509 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Thanks for your reply! That is actually helpful. This way if I am playing a weird chord I can figure out what it is. It doesn't, however, tell me what key the song is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 No, but "key" is a "chosen" value, not something you can "mathematically" compute. So if a song starts and ends with Gm and inbetween there is (among others) an F and Bb and Eb chord, well, you may choose: is it in Gm, or in Bb, or perhaps in F or even Cm? I would go for Gm, but that is by no means "the law". So I can understand why there is no such feature. The key is a choice, and such a feature would need a (rigid) formula. Because computers can't "feel" the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 More or less you try to sense what the "1 chord," the "4 chord," and the "5 chord" feel like. Those probably indicate "the key." Songs often begin and end on the tonic – the "1 chord." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx509 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Ok, yes this makes sense to me now. Determining what key a composition is in is even more difficult when the key changes within the song. The would indeed be difficult for Logic to determine. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 But – "key changes within the song" are usually very easy to recognize. Easily the best example of this is "Can't Fight the Moonlight," as memorably recorded by LeAnn Rimes. The entire driving force of this brilliantly-conceived hit song consists of: "harmonically progressive key changes!" Everything depends entirely upon this device. Kindly observe that LeAnn's [excellent as always] vocals do not change. What changes (continuously) is the harmonic context, which changes not only between verses but (sometimes several times) within them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 "What chords do your fingers naturally come to?" Most likely, they'll quickly settle upon three chords, and those three chords will turn out to have a "1 -5 -4" relationship to one another. For instance, a usual guitar song "in the key of E-flat" will feature "E" then "E+F+G+A+B" (+5) then "E+F+G+A(7)" (+4). Similarly, a song in the key of "C-major" will feature "C" then "C+D+E+F+G" then "C+D+E+F." Even if the song is in "a minor key," the arithemetical relationship between the foundation notes will still be there: "1 - 5 - 4." (1=Tonic, 5=Dominant, 4=Subdominant, leading to 5.) Yes, the harmonization might turn out to be more complex than that, but here are "Three Chords and the Truth.™" "More sophisticated" chord progressions always reduce themselves, one way or the other, to "these three anchors." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 P.S.: "For those who are truly "musically interested," what is actually going on in Moonlight is very-sophisticated "modal harmony." While LeAnn herself never changes vocal keys throughout the song, the song itself continuously changes around her! Therefore, the effective musical key changes, while the actual key (determined by her voice) does not. The resulting "obvious pull" is referred to as a mode, and was probably once called by a pig-latin name that you briefly had to remember until you, too, graduated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goergtn Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I’m gonna check that out, Mike. In the 90s and the 00s I played in several country bands and played some really nice stuff. The female vox in one band loved LeAnn and turned me on to some beautiful stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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