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how to figure out the key of a song - remixing


soccerpie

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I am somewhat new to remixing and would like to remix this song. How do you figure out the key note of a song (using Logic) ?

 

I don't know if this has been posted before but if any of have any tips or tricks or know how to do this, it would be a great help :)

 

This is the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iHFE0MuCkk: Emma - Crashing Down

 

Thank you

 

In the remix pack, it doesn't give any information regarding the key note.

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Typically a good rule of thumb is the chord the song starts with is the Key of the song. If it starts on the V chord you will hear its cadence resolving to a I chord. If not then the last chord of the song is usually a good bet thats the key of the song because the V-I cadence or resolution is what your ear wants to hear for finality.. Also when a verse starts over it usually tags to a 1 chord (the songs key) The vocalist have to find their note with the I chord.

 

Not being a jerk or anything but Music theory really isn't that hard at all. Take some lessons or hit youtube to learn about chord scales and basic chord progressions. It will really set you free when you are listening to a chord progression go by. Also practice hearing the difference between major and minor. I hear a lot of "Remixers" completely screw this up. They start mixing a major song with minor parts and it sounds stupid. Anyway enjoy

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  • 7 months later...
Great tips from LiquidLogic above. Many songs do start on the root chord of the key. However in the case of the song above, the key root chord is the third chord you hear (in a 4 chord / 4 bar cycle). This is the chord under the lyrics "...away, ...from myself". The key is minor. Listen to the bass note. This is your key. Something minor. Now work it out. Good luck.
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I'm not talented and can't figure it out by ear. One of the things I do when I'm trying to find the key of a song is that I would play a note or try to play a solo or melody on a keyboard and try to hear if the notes I played goes well with the song. By doing that I find several notes that match and play and the scale of the key.
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  • 1 month later...
I agree that many songs start from the key, but that's what makes it a dangerous oversimplification. There are songs that don't even GO to key major or minor. I would recommend starting from picking up the lead melody and see if it matches any diatonic scale. Then if you're unsure, try recognizing chords, figure their tonal structure and compare them to possible diatonic scales. Carrying melodies and chords tend to match the key scales most of the time, while harmonic and melodic minor scales are common in key minor as well. If you need clarification, I can give you an example when I get home.
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  • 2 years later...

Much of my music modulates from key to key quite a bit. Frankly, I often don't know what key it really is in. The best way to find out might be to try all 12 keys and see (in the score view) which key gives you the least number of natural accidentals.

 

Anybody have any quick tricks for this?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Break the song into sections. Take the midi tracks you have and put into score editor, if you see a section with different sharps or flats, you have changed key..

 

General rule - loop a section, jam along till you find the most notes that fit.. if they don't fit as the song progresses, you've changed key, or transposed.. Figure out notes that fit for that section etc..

 

Some jazz makes it a point to change key often so there really is no set key..

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Some jazz makes it a point to change key often so there really is no set key..

 

Not really.

If you're in C and there's an A7 chord,then technically at that point you're in D,A7 being the dominant of D,but more often than not it's used as a tonally different colour,while still being VI of C.Stick some extensions on and the interchangeability is more obvious.

A7b10,b9,b13 gives a flatter tonality more akin to C.See?

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  • 1 month later...

Yes, you made a specific example, which does show key.. I am quoting "Gary Burton" from his "Jazz Improvisation" course on Coursera.org..

 

Purposely I have written jams, which change, key and modality so frequently there was no key, or you could say 3 bars in one key or modality, then shifting, and shifting.. Result was kind of wandering musical wall paper... not the kind of music I would pursue anymore, but I did it as a test.

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  • 2 years later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Actually, Score View is very helpful because it lets you look at one possible interpretation of what you hear.  And, yes, adding a key-signature and noticing which one has the least amount of (or, no) added sharps or flats (accidentals ...) is a good way to do it.

 

Another way is to assume the key of "C" (no sharps or flats ...) and simply notice where sharps or flats have been added by the software.  Start by noticing where a note has been altered consistently, "every time it appears."  Then, count how many there are.

 

Or:  "how many of the bands on Piano Roll which contain blobs are dark-colored bands, corresponding to "black keys?"  (This method is less exact, since some accidentals correspond to white keys, but it works for most key-signatures.)

 

You will notice that all key-signatures consist of a certain sequence of sharps/flats, and that more sharps/flats are always added to the key-signature, always on the right-hand-side without taking any of the others away.  If there are "three sharps," they will be "F - C - G."  "Three flats" will be "B - E - A."  Also bear in mind that "one note's sharp is its next door neighbor's flat." (A comment which might sound funny to those of you who live in London or some other big city.)  F-sharp is G-flat and so on.  There are rules-of-thumb that will tell you which key corresponds to each number of flats or sharps – or, let the software do it for you.

 

Accidentals which are "part of the key (signature)" will occur every time: they actually serve to describe the spacing (interval) between the notes, and thus create "what the key generally 'sounds like.'" Accidentals which are "accidents" (so to speak) will be one-offs – exceptions to the rule made for artistic reasons.  These "accidents" also clearly mark a clearly audible change to the perceived sound, occurring at exactly that point.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 years later...
I found this thread by searching for the same question. I also play guitar and I usually find the key that way, but I wanted to find a quicker way by just looking at the piano roll rather than getting out my guitar and plucking around. It seems that there should be some really easy way of figuring this out directly in the piano roll, but it doesn't seem like this is an option yet.
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One way to do it might be to look at the Score display. Notice now where all the "sharps or flats" are showing up (if you've initially set "key of C" which is no sharps/flats).

 

Those "sharps and flats" form a definite pattern which is what a "key signature" on a printed score is actually showing you. (If there are "three sharps," they are always F-C-G, and so on.) Fiddle around with the key-signature setting until most if not all of the "sharp/flat symbols" go away.

 

And, as someone in this thread said (many years ago, now ...) "basic music theory" really isn't all that hard. There are plenty of very good videos on the subject: Toby Rush (tobyrush.com) actually did a book of cartoons. There are really only a small handful of things that you need to know to really help you out – you actually don't have to go that deep into it to come away with some really useful nuggets. You'll find yourself actually saying, "gee, that actually makes sense!" :)

 

With practice, you can actually hear what the key-signature is most likely to be. Because of "physics reasons" that we don't need to dive into, the various keys sound different, and not just at a superficial level. There's a certain discernible "pull" as the lines of melody play through: "it's not just the pitch."

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No, but "key" is a "chosen" value, not something you can "mathematically" compute. So if a song starts and ends with Gm and inbetween there is (among others) an F and Bb and Eb chord, well, you may choose: is it in Gm, or in Bb, or perhaps in F or even Cm? I would go for Gm, but that is by no means "the law". So I can understand why there is no such feature. The key is a choice, and such a feature would need a (rigid) formula. Because computers can't "feel" the key.
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  • 2 weeks later...

But – "key changes within the song" are usually very easy to recognize.

 

Easily the best example of this is "Can't Fight the Moonlight," as memorably recorded by LeAnn Rimes.

 

The entire driving force of this brilliantly-conceived hit song consists of: "harmonically progressive key changes!" Everything depends entirely upon this device.

 

Kindly observe that LeAnn's [excellent as always] vocals do not change. What changes (continuously) is the harmonic context, which changes not only between verses but (sometimes several times) within them.

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"What chords do your fingers naturally come to?"

 

Most likely, they'll quickly settle upon three chords, and those three chords will turn out to have a "1 -5 -4" relationship to one another. For instance, a usual guitar song "in the key of E-flat" will feature "E" then "E+F+G+A+B" (+5) then "E+F+G+A(7)" (+4). Similarly, a song in the key of "C-major" will feature "C" then "C+D+E+F+G" then "C+D+E+F." Even if the song is in "a minor key," the arithemetical relationship between the foundation notes will still be there: "1 - 5 - 4." (1=Tonic, 5=Dominant, 4=Subdominant, leading to 5.)

 

Yes, the harmonization might turn out to be more complex than that, but here are "Three Chords and the Truth.™"

 

"More sophisticated" chord progressions always reduce themselves, one way or the other, to "these three anchors."

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P.S.: "For those who are truly "musically interested," what is actually going on in Moonlight is very-sophisticated "modal harmony." While LeAnn herself never changes vocal keys throughout the song, the song itself continuously changes around her!

 

Therefore, the effective musical key changes, while the actual key (determined by her voice) does not. The resulting "obvious pull" is referred to as a mode, and was probably once called by a pig-latin name that you briefly had to remember until you, too, graduated.

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