shivermetimbers Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... JPMoore Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I believe writing boils down to your intended Audience and intended outcome. In the 80's I wrote and performed the twisted artsy "Zappaesk" stuff and had a limited audience for it that went "WOW". After 30 years of writing and especially performing the most effective I have been at keeping the listener and having them Remember My songs and Hooks is the simple POP format and focus on the GROOVE. Most listeners are very simple minded and just want to have FUN and be Moved emotionally. David Gilmore said it best." If you haven't Moved anyone you haven't done Anything! that of course can be accomplished many ways. There are tons of chord substitutions that can happen over the same melodies the more avant garde they are, the more non basic 4/4 time signatures and dance/ballad Groove will usually change the style from POP/country/R&R to JAZZ or "musician's" music. The audiences for alternative music will always be significantly smaller even for the best players/singers in the world. That's why they call Pop, it's POPular. Addressing the original Q, beyond theory and mathematics it all comes down to EARS and being MOVED. What harmonies work? the ones that Help get us and our listeners Moved in the Soul. A famous country writer said "there is No Money above the third fret." KISS, Keep if Simple Stupid." Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics), the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear. Experimenting on UNWASHED Listeners will undoubtedly shift the writer's approach. There's more of Them than there are of us. Happy Hunting ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... JPMoore Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hence, I restruct. instead of "Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics), the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear" I should have said, "Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics) and the PHRASING of those lyrics, the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear. Sing it like yolu'd say it.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... rone2him Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 After reading through this thread I remember back on my last quarter at college, only needed 3 units to grad so I took a beginning music theory class; the prof nicknamed me 'the composer' I pondered it was because: I would lock myself in a 'piano practice room', and just hammer intervals and chords for hours on end... Looking at "compose" - to create, phrase with care and thought, in an artistic way, or make up a whole; to put together, construct, with character, that prepared, to calm or settle... I composed this from the Apple Dictionary So my answer would be just compose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Beer Moth Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 . Sing it like yolu'd say it.! Used to have to write the rhythm to given text/lyrics as part of Grade 5 theory test,back in the old days. Good practice,btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... rone2him Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Some amazing takes! Love to hear things soloed out like this, just a little bleed from a piano track. Great panning huh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... qvr Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Spending hours and hours at a piano trying out various chord sequences makes wonders for learning to harmonize any kind of content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations It could be your dirty little secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It could be your dirty little secret another one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 months later... aleos Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 in responce to the original poster, an easy, methodical way to start experimenting, is find all the chords in the key that the melody note is not a part of. This will then let you hear the sound of 2nds, 4ths, 6ths, and if you're only using triad based chords 7ths. In the key of C; so if you're melody goes c-c-c-e-e your first chord is C major (over the C notes), and you're sick of going to either aminor (5th) or eminor (root) when the melody changes, try all the other chords in C major. For me, d minor is sexy (9th). How about Bminor 7(b5) (4th)? That sounds really good if voiced nicely. It almost sound like a chord tone itself. Going to G is sweet. and comforting. Going to F major sounds nice (7th) That is essentially it. That will teach you to hear what non cord-tone-based melody sounds like. Of course many of these notes want to resolve, especially, to my ears, the "e" over the G major chord. Wants to go to D. Also, listen to Radiohead, Thom Yorke can sing a non-chord tone like nobody's biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 years later... angelonyc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Pat Patterson songwriter teacher at Berklee and free course at coursera.org.. Calls them tools rather than rules.. Because of the way the human ear is trained certain noites sound better together, that can vary from culture to culture..You are talking about passing tones in the melody.. A melody that only stuck to chord tunes would get boriing very fast.. Realize the chord progression you are using and if possible the chordal structure you are using.. then you will find where you can basically play any note in that scale, and it will work.. With clashing notes, you use a shorted duration, and possibly velocity, and have them resolve to a note in the chord.. Guitarists often play pentatonic scales (5 note scales).. Because they will fit of a fair amount of chord progressions.. Like yin and yang. You have to have so not so sweet notes to make the sweet notes sound better.. Day and nite/ good and bad/ they work together to make a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... basils Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One way to develop harmonies, is to take out the middle man, (the keyboards, guitars, whatever) and use your voice. apparently Amos Garret (Midnight at the oasis guitar solo) develops his leads with his voice quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Restore formatting Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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JPMoore Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I believe writing boils down to your intended Audience and intended outcome. In the 80's I wrote and performed the twisted artsy "Zappaesk" stuff and had a limited audience for it that went "WOW". After 30 years of writing and especially performing the most effective I have been at keeping the listener and having them Remember My songs and Hooks is the simple POP format and focus on the GROOVE. Most listeners are very simple minded and just want to have FUN and be Moved emotionally. David Gilmore said it best." If you haven't Moved anyone you haven't done Anything! that of course can be accomplished many ways. There are tons of chord substitutions that can happen over the same melodies the more avant garde they are, the more non basic 4/4 time signatures and dance/ballad Groove will usually change the style from POP/country/R&R to JAZZ or "musician's" music. The audiences for alternative music will always be significantly smaller even for the best players/singers in the world. That's why they call Pop, it's POPular. Addressing the original Q, beyond theory and mathematics it all comes down to EARS and being MOVED. What harmonies work? the ones that Help get us and our listeners Moved in the Soul. A famous country writer said "there is No Money above the third fret." KISS, Keep if Simple Stupid." Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics), the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear. Experimenting on UNWASHED Listeners will undoubtedly shift the writer's approach. There's more of Them than there are of us. Happy Hunting ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMoore Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hence, I restruct. instead of "Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics), the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear" I should have said, "Focusing on (in this order) the Message (lyrics) and the PHRASING of those lyrics, the Feel, the Emotion, the Groove, Melody and the supporting chords/harmonies and song structures seem to magically appear. Sing it like yolu'd say it.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rone2him Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 After reading through this thread I remember back on my last quarter at college, only needed 3 units to grad so I took a beginning music theory class; the prof nicknamed me 'the composer' I pondered it was because: I would lock myself in a 'piano practice room', and just hammer intervals and chords for hours on end... Looking at "compose" - to create, phrase with care and thought, in an artistic way, or make up a whole; to put together, construct, with character, that prepared, to calm or settle... I composed this from the Apple Dictionary So my answer would be just compose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 . Sing it like yolu'd say it.! Used to have to write the rhythm to given text/lyrics as part of Grade 5 theory test,back in the old days. Good practice,btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... rone2him Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Some amazing takes! Love to hear things soloed out like this, just a little bleed from a piano track. Great panning huh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... qvr Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Spending hours and hours at a piano trying out various chord sequences makes wonders for learning to harmonize any kind of content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations It could be your dirty little secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It could be your dirty little secret another one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 months later... aleos Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 in responce to the original poster, an easy, methodical way to start experimenting, is find all the chords in the key that the melody note is not a part of. This will then let you hear the sound of 2nds, 4ths, 6ths, and if you're only using triad based chords 7ths. In the key of C; so if you're melody goes c-c-c-e-e your first chord is C major (over the C notes), and you're sick of going to either aminor (5th) or eminor (root) when the melody changes, try all the other chords in C major. For me, d minor is sexy (9th). How about Bminor 7(b5) (4th)? That sounds really good if voiced nicely. It almost sound like a chord tone itself. Going to G is sweet. and comforting. Going to F major sounds nice (7th) That is essentially it. That will teach you to hear what non cord-tone-based melody sounds like. Of course many of these notes want to resolve, especially, to my ears, the "e" over the G major chord. Wants to go to D. Also, listen to Radiohead, Thom Yorke can sing a non-chord tone like nobody's biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 years later... angelonyc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Pat Patterson songwriter teacher at Berklee and free course at coursera.org.. Calls them tools rather than rules.. Because of the way the human ear is trained certain noites sound better together, that can vary from culture to culture..You are talking about passing tones in the melody.. A melody that only stuck to chord tunes would get boriing very fast.. Realize the chord progression you are using and if possible the chordal structure you are using.. then you will find where you can basically play any note in that scale, and it will work.. With clashing notes, you use a shorted duration, and possibly velocity, and have them resolve to a note in the chord.. Guitarists often play pentatonic scales (5 note scales).. Because they will fit of a fair amount of chord progressions.. Like yin and yang. You have to have so not so sweet notes to make the sweet notes sound better.. Day and nite/ good and bad/ they work together to make a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... basils Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One way to develop harmonies, is to take out the middle man, (the keyboards, guitars, whatever) and use your voice. apparently Amos Garret (Midnight at the oasis guitar solo) develops his leads with his voice quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Restore formatting Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 0 Go to topic listing All Activity Home Forums Music Production Composition and Creativity Harmonizing a melody × Existing user? Sign In Sign Up Home Forums Back Forums Unanswered Topics All Activity Leaderboard Search Our Picks Articles Logic Pro Class Back Logic Pro Class Student Testimonials FAQ Book Back Book in English Livre en Français About Back About Privacy Policy Terms of Service × Create New...
rone2him Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Some amazing takes! Love to hear things soloed out like this, just a little bleed from a piano track. Great panning huh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... qvr Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Spending hours and hours at a piano trying out various chord sequences makes wonders for learning to harmonize any kind of content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations It could be your dirty little secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It could be your dirty little secret another one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 months later... aleos Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 in responce to the original poster, an easy, methodical way to start experimenting, is find all the chords in the key that the melody note is not a part of. This will then let you hear the sound of 2nds, 4ths, 6ths, and if you're only using triad based chords 7ths. In the key of C; so if you're melody goes c-c-c-e-e your first chord is C major (over the C notes), and you're sick of going to either aminor (5th) or eminor (root) when the melody changes, try all the other chords in C major. For me, d minor is sexy (9th). How about Bminor 7(b5) (4th)? That sounds really good if voiced nicely. It almost sound like a chord tone itself. Going to G is sweet. and comforting. Going to F major sounds nice (7th) That is essentially it. That will teach you to hear what non cord-tone-based melody sounds like. Of course many of these notes want to resolve, especially, to my ears, the "e" over the G major chord. Wants to go to D. Also, listen to Radiohead, Thom Yorke can sing a non-chord tone like nobody's biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 2 years later... angelonyc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Pat Patterson songwriter teacher at Berklee and free course at coursera.org.. Calls them tools rather than rules.. Because of the way the human ear is trained certain noites sound better together, that can vary from culture to culture..You are talking about passing tones in the melody.. A melody that only stuck to chord tunes would get boriing very fast.. Realize the chord progression you are using and if possible the chordal structure you are using.. then you will find where you can basically play any note in that scale, and it will work.. With clashing notes, you use a shorted duration, and possibly velocity, and have them resolve to a note in the chord.. Guitarists often play pentatonic scales (5 note scales).. Because they will fit of a fair amount of chord progressions.. Like yin and yang. You have to have so not so sweet notes to make the sweet notes sound better.. Day and nite/ good and bad/ they work together to make a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... basils Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One way to develop harmonies, is to take out the middle man, (the keyboards, guitars, whatever) and use your voice. apparently Amos Garret (Midnight at the oasis guitar solo) develops his leads with his voice quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Restore formatting Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply Share More sharing options... Followers 0 Go to topic listing All Activity Home Forums Music Production Composition and Creativity Harmonizing a melody
el-bo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qvr Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Spending hours and hours at a piano trying out various chord sequences makes wonders for learning to harmonize any kind of content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 PS. I still do plenty of random stuff when writing music, theory hasn't taken away the sense of adventure in any way. you know another thing i don't wanna lose is being able to say that it was all done without training..... Vanity! but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 but more in defence, as in "well it aint so bad for someone without training" having had training leads people to higher expectations It could be your dirty little secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It could be your dirty little secret another one ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleos Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 in responce to the original poster, an easy, methodical way to start experimenting, is find all the chords in the key that the melody note is not a part of. This will then let you hear the sound of 2nds, 4ths, 6ths, and if you're only using triad based chords 7ths. In the key of C; so if you're melody goes c-c-c-e-e your first chord is C major (over the C notes), and you're sick of going to either aminor (5th) or eminor (root) when the melody changes, try all the other chords in C major. For me, d minor is sexy (9th). How about Bminor 7(b5) (4th)? That sounds really good if voiced nicely. It almost sound like a chord tone itself. Going to G is sweet. and comforting. Going to F major sounds nice (7th) That is essentially it. That will teach you to hear what non cord-tone-based melody sounds like. Of course many of these notes want to resolve, especially, to my ears, the "e" over the G major chord. Wants to go to D. Also, listen to Radiohead, Thom Yorke can sing a non-chord tone like nobody's biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelonyc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Pat Patterson songwriter teacher at Berklee and free course at coursera.org.. Calls them tools rather than rules.. Because of the way the human ear is trained certain noites sound better together, that can vary from culture to culture..You are talking about passing tones in the melody.. A melody that only stuck to chord tunes would get boriing very fast.. Realize the chord progression you are using and if possible the chordal structure you are using.. then you will find where you can basically play any note in that scale, and it will work.. With clashing notes, you use a shorted duration, and possibly velocity, and have them resolve to a note in the chord.. Guitarists often play pentatonic scales (5 note scales).. Because they will fit of a fair amount of chord progressions.. Like yin and yang. You have to have so not so sweet notes to make the sweet notes sound better.. Day and nite/ good and bad/ they work together to make a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basils Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One way to develop harmonies, is to take out the middle man, (the keyboards, guitars, whatever) and use your voice. apparently Amos Garret (Midnight at the oasis guitar solo) develops his leads with his voice quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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