Stuck with quarter note duplets in 6/8 [SOLVED]

This is more of a notation question than anything else.

Someone recently asked me to help them put in a pair of quarter note duplets in a 6/8 measure using the score editor in Logic.

I usually use the N-tuplet symbol for this and it works well. The problem is, this person wanted to follow the duplets....with three eighth notes...

And that's my question...how? How can I even fit three eighth notes after a quarter note duplet in 6/8 if, as far as I know, duplets are equivalent to three figures of the same type (in this case 1 quarter note duplet = the duration of 3 quarter notes). But in 6/8 there's only two beats, and each gets a dotted quarter...there isn't room for anything else in the measure! Unless...

Am I missing something here?

J.

A pair of 1/4 note duplets... as in TWO duplets? 4 quarter notes? That would already fill 2 bars of 6/8 in itself. Even then, AFAIK 1/4 note duplets don't make sense in 6/8: you would simply use two dotted quarter notes in one bar.

A pair of 1/8 note duplets would be a full bar of 6/8.

A pair of 1/4 note duplets... as in TWO duplets? 4 quarter notes? That would already fill 2 bars of 6/8 in itself.

No, sorry, I meant 1 quarter note duplet. Like this:

As you can see Logic only leaves enough time in the bar for 2 eighth notes, not three.

J.

Can't be done.

Nearest I can come up with is a quarter then an eigth tied to the first eigth of the standard triplet on the second beat.

Leaving two.

What do they really want?,is the question.

What do they really want?,is the question.

Thanks for answering, Beer Moth. I really don't know what this person was working on. Sounded like he wanted to have this printed and was having a hard time entering in the score editor whatever he wanted to print.

The thing is the guy insisted that they do fit (3 eighth notes after the quarter duplet) and try to convince me but still it didn't make sense to me. I did some research and actually found some example from a book where they had this kind of rhythm going on. I'll try to see if I can find it.

As David pointed out,since 1/8 duplets are a beat,then 1/4 duplets would be two beats. Just like the dotted 1/4s in normal 6/8.

That's what I thought all along, but wasn't sure...

J.

On reflection,I think he/she wants eigth note duplets probably.

Must be, other examples I found had quarter note duplets happening mostly on 3/4...and the 6/8 examples had eighth note duplets.

J.

Ask 'em if they want "Bip bop bopetty Bip bop bopetty".

Just to make sure.

Thanks, looks like I was right in thinking that that rhythm don't fit in 6/8...found this from a book by Tedd Ross:

J.

Yeah and like I said, I've never seen 1/4 note duplets in 6/8 since you would just use dotted quarter notes instead. So that's one more vote for "they must have meant an 1/8th note duplet".

So if a quarter note duplet equals 2 dotted quarters in 6/8 (a full measure), how come Logic allows another quarter into the same bar (as in my first image)?

J.

It would never be a quarter note duplet. I could only be an eighth note duplet. Here are some combinations.

So if a quarter note duplet equals 2 dotted quarters in 6/8 (a full measure), how come Logic allows another quarter into the same bar (as in my first image)?

Cos Logic isn't very good at x/8.

Doesn't count the beats right.

Another annoyance,

Why can't you beam trip semis to a pair of semis without the double beam crossing the half beat?

What did you do to get that 1/4 note duplet thing? What were your tuplet settings, and on what beats did the notes land before you hit 'em with the tuplet tool?

Here's what I did:

Dropped a quarter note from the part box on the first beat of my 6/8 bar and got this:

Then used the n-tuplet symbol with these settings:

And got this:

Which I later filled with another quarter to complete the duplet you see in my first image in this thread.

J.

So if a quarter note duplet equals 2 dotted quarters in 6/8 (a full measure), how come Logic allows another quarter into the same bar (as in my first image)?

Ask the Logic programmers? (it doesn't make sense in standard music notation)

Duplets are the opposite of triplets. Where triplet allow you to have 3 equal length notes in the space of two, duplets allow you to have 2 equal length notes in the space of three.

A duplet of quarter note = 2 equal length notes in the space of three quarter notes = 2 dotted quarter notes.

Ask the Logic programmers? (it doesn't make sense in standard music notation)

So it's a bug then? Because writing this rhythm sounds like two regular quarter notes are being played in a bar of 6/8. That's probably why it leaves room for one more quarter note...In other words, these two sound exactly the same:

Duplets are the opposite of triplets. Where triplet allow you to have 3 equal length notes in the space of two, duplets allow you to have 2 equal length notes in the space of three.

Yeah, that's how I understood it before all the confusion.

J.

So it's a bug then?

It's hard to tell, since you're trying to notate something that doesn't exist in traditional music notation (a 1/4 note duplet in 6/8).

But if I was a musician and you gave me a duplet of 1/4 notes in a 6/8 bar I would play it as two dotted quarter notes. If you gave me a duplet of 1/4 notes plus a 1/4 note rest in a bar of 6/8, I would ask the conductor what his thoughts are. But I don't think any human would write either of those.

I think that precisely because it is wrong, Logic doesn't know what to do with it and just plays them back as regular quarter notes.

since you're trying to notate something that doesn't exist in traditional music notation (a 1/4 note duplet in 6/8).

That was what I thought from the get go and the reason I opened this thread. Because I wasn't 100% sure (and the guy was strongly insisting that it wasn't incorrect).

All is clear now, and even the person who wanted to notate this has accepted I was right: it's not possible.

J.

even the person who wanted to notate this has accepted I was right: it's not possible.

Good!

I was thinking about this some more:

- To us humans, a bar of 6/8 contains two beats, each beat is a dotted quarter note that contains three 1/8th notes.

- To Logic, a bar of 6/8 contains six beats, and each beat is an 1/8th note that contains two 1/16th notes (if you leave your division set to 1/16).

I was thinking about this some more:

 

- To us humans, a bar of 6/8 contains two beats, each beat is a dotted quarter note that contains three 1/8th notes.

- To Logic, a bar of 6/8 contains six beats, and each beat is an 1/8th note that contains two 1/16th notes (if you leave your division set to 1/16).

That makes sense. Thanks, David.

J.