deckard1 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 The more I take lessons and practice the guitar, the more I realize how important ear training comes into play. Any suggestions as to how to get better with regards to ear training? *** I am assuming that ear training is being able to name a note when hearing it without the aid of an instrument. Is that all there is to it? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Ear training is vitally important if you play guitar to know when/if your instrument is going out of tune, particularly if intonation is out (i.e. it can be in tune on one area of the fretboard, but out elsewhere). An out of tune instrument can sound bad, put you off playing, and most importantly when multi-tracking can really upset things. Most people tune to the open strings and think it's a done job - not at all. However, being able to know 'which' note is which by ear, i don't really think is that important(?), at least it's not been in my experience, perhaps if you were in an improv band it would be? Also, if you're a talented singer and know your voice well it's sometimes important to know where you are in the range as to when you can go high or low to reach/drop to certain notes. If you were to train your ears to anything, and you're wanting to record/mix your own music - personally, i would look into learning common frequency ranges, i.e. where each instrument lives (+ it's harmonics), and what are the unwanted/problem ranges for each. That's really useful to know that. However, whether you want to learn frequencies, or notes bye ear, there's plenty of websites and apps that quiz you, and you can learn it that way. Having a go on those once a day is bound to be the quickest way of fast tracking. You can also sing a note and guess where you are, and then play a guitar string/instrument to confirm you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Thanks! This looks cool: http://www.meludia.com/en/ What do you think? A lot of the music schools use it. It's made by a French company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Quite honestly ... I'd suggest, "play, a lot!" If you've got a tuning-meter on your guitar, try to listen to your own sound and to only glance at the meter occasionally: don't use it as a crutch. When you do glance, try to guess in advance what it is going to tell you. Try to tune the string by ear and then glance at the meter to see how well you did. (If you're "off," look away and try again.) Let the electronic aids aid your ear. With a little practice, your ears will get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Scales and chords. Know what and where the notes are on your instrument. Once you get it over time, it will become part of you naturally. I can play really well in the key of C, but if I had to play that same thing, on the spot, in the key of F# I would be lost. Why? Because I am not all that familiar with, and rarely play in that key. If I knew the key of F# as well as i know C, it would be more natural. Once you understand all that, things get easier when you need to transpose, you'll start thinking in terms of intervals and the relationships. You have to practice and stay disciplined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 Scales and chords. Know what and where the notes are on your instrument. Once you get it over time, it will become part of you naturally. I can play really well in the key of C, but if I had to play that same thing, on the spot, in the key of F# I would be lost. Why? Because I am not all that familiar with, and rarely play in that key. If I knew the key of F# as well as i know C, it would be more natural. Once you understand all that, things get easier when you need to transpose, you'll start thinking in terms of intervals and the relationships. You have to practice and stay disciplined. Great advice. Practicing and staying disciplined. Not easy by any means...at least for me. If I had to narrow it down to one thing..for the guitar anyways...it's knowing the notes on the fretboard. Like you stated above. Whereas the piano is 'linear' in nature, it's almost as if the guitar is like a matrix in it's layout. In other words, I would think it's easier to learn theory on the piano than the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 If I had to narrow it down to one thing..for the guitar anyways...it's knowing the notes on the fretboard. Like you stated above. Whereas the piano is 'linear' in nature, it's almost as if the guitar is like a matrix in it's layout. In other words, I would think it's easier to learn theory on the piano than the guitar. I suspect that it's mostly what you are used to. It's probably easier to discuss theory using a keyboard as a reference because, even if you don't actually play the thing, you can see visually how it works. If someone asked you to "play A-flat," there's a pretty good chance that you'd be able to figure out which button to push. Not so with almost any other instrument. But remember – theory is mostly descriptive, not prescriptive. (It is, of course, "theoretical.") It suggests why something sounds the way that it does, and it suggests possible other things that you might wish to try based on this knowledge, but if you play improvise with your instrument frequently, many of these same lessons will become "muscle memory," which is a pathway through your brain that isn't necessarily "cerebral." It's intuitive. Instinctive. Spontaneous. "Jazzy." And, "ear training" is very much like muscle-memory, too. Or it can be. I know many players who can easily tune their instruments by ear, even to "drop key" tunings. They just do it, having done it so many times before. Even if they can't quite say what their body knows, their body does know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2me2 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Ear Training covers a number of things - being able to identify the name of a single note can be a component of this, but that sounds more like perfect pitch. Various musicians feel you can/can't learn this. From my experience with musicians, perfect pitch is developed when you are young (check out Youtuber Rick Beato and his son Dylan - it's mind-blowing what he can do). I do think you can develope relative pitch with practice - which is more of an approximation of a pitch. Ear training is meant to develop your ear's ability to identify a variety of things from intervals to scales to chords to relationships etc... What you want to learn/improve depends on what you plan to to with it. For example, I'm a self-taught rock guitarist that eventually got degrees in composition (with a classical perspective). As an educator by day and composer by night, my attitude or approach to ear training might differ from a performer. It might also differ from someone of a different genre or instrument or something else. I agree with much of the ideas in the comments above: Tuning is a practical use for the instrument, playing a lot will help to reinforce the practice, etc... From my perspective and preference (based on my activities), I value the ability to identify relationships. As a composer and music theory instructor, I can't help but hear relationships in music. Knowing what chord progressions or melodies or rhythms are used means a lot when analyzing and understanding a piece of music. From there, I can reconstruct a piece of music or utilize the info in a composition. When I'm not thinking of the chords (or at least, when I'm not concerned with the chord analysis), I try to identify the scale, intervals, or chord qualities (these are all related to relationships in music). Not sure if that will help you directly, but here is a resource that I use a lot in my classes that I think are quite useful. You can customize exercises for a variety of ear training practice (the Lessons are also great for music theory): http://www.musictheory.net/exercises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 "Ear Training covers a number of things - being able to identify the name of a single note can be a component of this, but that sounds more like perfect pitch. Various musicians feel you can/can't learn this. From my experience with musicians, perfect pitch is developed when you are young (check out Youtuber Rick Beato and his son Dylan - it's mind-blowing what he can do). I do think you can develope relative pitch with practice - which is more of an approximation of a pitch." Indeed, acquiring a sense of "perfect pitch" (absolute pitch) is not a requisite part of ear training. And it's not something most people can learn once they get older. On the other hand, you definitely can learn relative pitch and intervals. In the big scheme of things, the practical difference between having perfect pitch (and not) is very minor... People with perfect pitch can identify pitches without needing an external reference. But musicians who don't have this ability can learn to recognize pitches or intervals by first priming their ear by listening to a reference pitch, like a tuner or a tuning fork. Once they get that note in their head, it's possible to then recognize pitches and intervals with speeds that approach that of someone who's got perfect pitch. It takes practice, but lots of musicians learn to do it. So really, the important thing about recognizing pitches and intervals isn't so much that you can do it "naturally" as simply being able to do it! That's what counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 "Ear Training covers a number of things - being able to identify the name of a single note can be a component of this, but that sounds more like perfect pitch. Various musicians feel you can/can't learn this. From my experience with musicians, perfect pitch is developed when you are young (check out Youtuber Rick Beato and his son Dylan - it's mind-blowing what he can do). I do think you can develope relative pitch with practice - which is more of an approximation of a pitch." Indeed, acquiring a sense of "perfect pitch" (absolute pitch) is not a requisite part of ear training. And it's not something most people can learn once they get older. On the other hand, you definitely can learn relative pitch and intervals. In the big scheme of things, the practical difference between having perfect pitch (and not) is very minor... People with perfect pitch can identify pitches without needing an external reference. But musicians who don't have this ability can learn to recognize pitches or intervals by first priming their ear by listening to a reference pitch, like a tuner or a tuning fork. Once they get that note in their head, it's possible to then recognize pitches and intervals with speeds that approach that of someone who's got perfect pitch. It takes practice, but lots of musicians learn to do it. So really, the important thing about recognizing pitches and intervals isn't so much that you can do it "naturally" as simply being able to do it! That's what counts. LPX 10.4? Where is it? Just curious. Referencing your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I have lately been (re-)reading Hearing and Writing Music: Professional Training for Today's Musician, by Ron Gorow (ISBN-13: 978-0-9629496-7-8), in which he underscores the point that intervals are really the only thing that is universal ... and, universally "hear-able" ... in music. It probably isn't that important ... although it may be useful ... if you can tell with your ear that "A = 440 Hz." But it is useful to be able to realize that a particular interval is, or is not, "out of tune." (And to be able to recognize, so to speak "at a glance," which interval it is.) In real-world playing, outside the studio (where an absolute pitch-standard of course already exists), it's not critically important that the performance be accurately tuned to some external global pitch-standard. But it is important that the performance be tuned to itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) @ Deckard, "10.4" is just a joke referencing the current LPH thread discussing the apparently wholly fictitious Logic version 10.4. I've been waiting for someone to notice that! @ Mike... "But it is important that the performance be tuned to itself." For sure, producing intervals that are in tune, whether it's singing or playing fretless/keyless instruments, is a fundamental hallmark of good musicianship regardless of the tuning standard (which itself is variable according to convention, tradition, and locale). Then again, the quality of intervals (their "in-tuneness") is never quite absolute. There's always a tolerance of few cents on either side of "perfect" that is entirely acceptable, even necessary. For example, if it weren't for differences in intonation amongst ensemble violinists, the sound of unison lines would be rather uninteresting. What's funny is that each violinist will be playing their note in what they think is "in tune", but they're all invariably going to be slightly out of tune with each other. Also, the "out-of-tuneness" often heard in solo french horn passages (especially natural horn), bugle, etc. are simply characteristic of those instruments and usually not thought of as clams (mistakes, for those unfamiliar with the term). The ultimate litmus test for whether intervals are absolute occurs during the performance of any piano concerto. Consider just some of the variables at play: • The piano is going to be stretch tuned. • Woodwinds: bassoonists playing their middle G and clarinets playing in the altissimo register need to half-hole and/or lip to achieve proper intonation • Horn intonation (as mentioned above) • Timpani (with all of their overtones) routinely playing notes a 3rd, 4th, or 5th above or below the actual root played by the rest of the orchestra ...etc... On being able to tell with your ear that an A is 440 or 439 or 444... Well, someone has to be able to tell LOL and it's not just the oboist or pianist giving an orchestra their A. In fact, every instrumentalist in any ensemble has to be able to tell if they're tuning up to the standard being used. Exceptions, of course, are pianists, and percussionists playing mallets, bells, celesta, etc. At the end of the day, ear training is something any serious musician needs to study if they're going to be taken seriously in a professional environment. It's especially important if you're a composer. IMO, no one has to try to develop perfect pitch if they don't already possess that ability. But interval training is an invaluable, if not entirely necessary tool. Talking about musical passages in terms of intervals is a fundamental part of the musical lexicon. Musical expressiveness is often discussed in terms of intervals too. A conductor might coach a soloist to play a passage with a certain feeling by describing the function of intervals as they relate to emotion. For example, "The leap from the root to the octave in the first measure may seem mundane, and perhaps it is, but it provides a basis for contrast in the next measure when the phrase repeats -- but this time leaping to the flatted 9th. You need to be invested in the difference of that half step change because it embodies the entire feeling for this section of the piece." Edited October 30, 2017 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckard1 Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 What about Beethoven? Who was stone deaf later in his life yet produced absolute symphonic master pieces, in my opinion. He heard the music in his head? Is that it? Remarkable, if you ask me. To compose an entire symphony without actually hearing a single note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 "Equal Temperament," as used in keyboard instruments (and in our Western notation of the musical scale) actually causes many intervals to be poor substitutes for the real thing: fifths and ninths are very close; thirds are absolutely not. Players of non-fretted string instruments, such as violinists, can play the actual intervals correctly, by deviating slightly (but, consistently) from equal temperament. Some horns can do likewise. When playing only with instruments having this capability, they will very often play accurate intervals. But, when they are accompanied by a piano, they must adapt the notes that they play to the piano's equal-temperament strictures. Equal temperament is a mixed blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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