ECStreet Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I was wondering if someone could explain how you can legally sell music that contains samples you didnt create? is it ok to sell music with samples? do you have to obtain rights from the original artist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) how you can legally sell music that contains samples you didnt create? You can't. Unless... is it ok to sell music with samples? Not unless you have permission (or paid an agreed-upon fee) from the original copyright holder and/or publisher. In the case of Apple Loops, say, then yes, the license agreement allows you to use the loops royalty free (with certain conditions attached). But when it comes to lifting something from a record or CD, things get complicated. Sometimes the fees for use are extremely high. Sometimes it's difficult just to find out who owns the rights. Sometimes there are multiple writers, and you'd have to get releases from each of them or their publishers. And if it's an old song and one of the writers has died, you have to get permission from their estate and/or publisher or some other rights holder. do you have to obtain rights from the original artist? Depends on who owns the rights. Sometimes the original artist doesn't own the rights. BTW, why the sad face at the end? Edited August 13, 2010 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 how you can legally sell music that contains samples you didnt create? You can't. Well.... to the defense of the original poster, you can - you just have to ask for legal permission to the owners, as you explain yourself later on. See: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=59930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 OK, maybe I was a little harsh, so I edited my post and toned it down. Here's the thing... if you're going to use samples, fine, use them. But don't expect that you'll be able to release (i.e., sell) your recording unless you get the samples cleared, if you can get them cleared at all. Depending on what you sample, you may be denied permission without even a discussion of how much it might cost. I've seen that happen before. Also, don't expect that you can approach publishers and so on directly. You can read stories and get opinions from people all over the Internet. Some of what you read will be real, other stuff will be nothing but conjecture or urban myths. But honestly, the only real answers you're gonna get will come from an entertainment attorney who specializes in sample clearance. There are lots of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECStreet Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 So youre saying that everytime some mainstream artist samples an old song (lets face it, they do on almost every song) they ok with the original writer/writers? thats annoying. and im sad because i dont have the money to pay for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Sandvik Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 So youre saying that everytime some mainstream artist samples an old song (lets face it, they do on almost every song) they ok with the original writer/writers? thats annoying. and im sad because i dont have the money to pay for that... Many unfortunately just use the songs; then if the recorded song makes music the originators' lawyers will contact you and then it's gets expensive. For me, it's just easier to make new songs rather than worry about such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 So youre saying that everytime some mainstream artist samples an old song (lets face it, they do on almost every song) they ok with the original writer/writers? Yes, unless they want to get risk getting sued. Here's a story: A famous artist I worked for recently used a sample of a bass line in their basic tracks. Hey, I didn't know what it was. Not my job to clear samples. It's not even my job to worry about that kind of thing. I do tracks and overdubs. I figured some other keyboard player played it anyway. The album was just about to get released when the sample clearance guy from the record company noticed that the bass line was a sample. So then I got this 'emergency' call asking if I could re-create the bass line with the same sound (but with a slight twist to the notes) so that they wouldn't get sued. And when I get 'emergency' calls my rates double. Then they had to mix the track all over again and have it remastered too. So even trying to prevent getting sued cost the record company a lot of money. Bottom line: Making music ain't free. Thats annoying. It shouldn't be. You're using someone else's creativity to make your music. People become recording artists not only because they have a passion for it but also to pay the bills. There should be nothing annoying about compensating an artist for their work if you're going to use a piece of it. Besides, you'd have nothing to be annoyed about if they didn't make that music in the first place. and im sad because i dont have the money to pay for that... You'll have to figure out how to fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Also, record labels and publishers hire "super listeners" who acquire an incredible knowledge of their entire catalog to listen to just about everything that comes out to check for the use of samples those companies own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Misfit Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 So how does this apply to movie samples? I hear lots of dance tunes with samples from films and tv. Often only a snippet of dialogue, sometimes a whole speech. I hear these regularly on music on small independent labels from up and coming artists. More than likely not artists who would be hiring an entertainment lawyer. Does this work in the same way as with music or is it different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 So how does this apply to movie samples? I hear lots of dance tunes with samples from films and tv. Often only a snippet of dialogue, sometimes a whole speech. I hear these regularly on music on small independent labels from up and coming artists. More than likely not artists who would be hiring an entertainment lawyer. Does this work in the same way as with music or is it different? People use samples of pre-recorded stuff all the time. "Stuff" includes music tracks, dialog from movies, dialog from TV shows, it runs the gamut. If the track containing these samples goes beyond the underground, and the artist is making money off sales of these tracks, then whoever owns the rights to the original recordings has free rein to go after the artist and sue them. The source of the samples has no bearing on whether or not they have to be cleared UNLESS the source of the samples has come into the public domain. But don't always expect that samples are going to get cleared. Sometimes an artist, publisher, or copyright owner of the samples simply doesn't want their material used in any kind of "derivative work" and even if you sought permission, they might flat out refuse to give it to you. They don't even have to give you a reason. They can just say "no". Hell, they don't even have to respond. That's called a "Hollywood 'no' ". On the flip side, think about the Amen break. I don't remember if it was the record company or who, but they never went after royalties or sued anyone over its use. Bottom line: when you use material that someone else created, you open up the possibility of getting sued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Jackson Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 There is the gray area of Fair Use. Maybe this can help clarify things a little. From: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Misfit Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I figured it would be something like that. Was just interested in what your personal experiences might have been on this. Obviously blatant stealing of someone else's creative idea for your own benefit is cheating and wrong but a couple of words from a movie is not really a biggy. I guess it depends how much money (if any) is being made by the artist using the sample. Interesting about the fair use though. It's funny as sometimes the sample can become something that is more prominent than the original material that it was taken from. "Keep this frequency clear" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResinThumb Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Can a song made entirely with Logic Pro X loops be sold, published, or copyrighted as an original piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Can a song made entirely with Logic Pro X loops be sold, published, or copyrighted as an original piece? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResinThumb Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Thank you Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 You're welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Isn't rihanna actually GarageBand loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRobinson Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 If you read the fine print of Logic's license, you will see that Apple expressly states that its loops are free for you to use and are of course intended for that very purpose. If you sample anything, you are going to have to clear it ... and anyone-and-everyone to whom you might try to sell it is not only going to see that you did so, but is very likely to clear it a second time so they, also did "due diligence." If you're the kind of person who likes to watch the end-credits in a movie, or even a TV show, you will see the category, "Clearances." Anything that another party even "might" have a proprietary interest in, is going to be formally identified and cleared before the product is allowed to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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