Intel chips and the future of Logic

Did I miss any debate on the Intel decision in June while I was in Italy ?

 

Steve J has committed Apple to using variants of the x86 chipset in Mac's

by mid-2007, with prototype machines being "available" in mid-2006.

 

The rationale behind this is that,

 

(a). Apple cannot get IBM RISC family CPU's

(G4, G5, etc) which run very much faster than what they do at present and,

 

(b). By unifying and shrinking the software development path for both Windows

machines and for Mac's, there will be less cries of, "There's no software for that

task which runs on an Apple", a complaint often heard in many commercial

circles, although far less so in both music/video and the graphic arts.

Thereby, Mr J would surmise, opening the way to selling more Mac's.

 

My assessment of the situation is somewhat less rosy than this.

 

Having paid for my Logic Pro, and all the bits and pieces which hook into

it to do what I want, am I going to get a free "sidegrade" DVD for the native

x86 version when I buy a new Apple in, say, 2007 ? If not, I shall be running

G5-optimised code in nothing short of an emulation mode on the new

chipset ! ! ! By God, will THAT slow Logic down ...........

 

And what about all the plug-ins, some of which (here, at least) have cost

far more than Logic itself ?

 

Maybe some folk haven't stopped and considered these issues but, in a

commercial studio environment, I actually have to be looking NOW at what directions

our output will be taking in 2006/2007/2008, so it isn't just an academic

question. There are aspects of contract law to consider and the obligation

placed on us to deliver a service.

My crystal ball says:

 

2" tape...tracking live with actual musicians in the room.

 

Tutti Benne !!!

Hey Mate,

 

What I'm going to say is a joke before I get kicked off the forum :

 

Since Apple will have x86 code running, all software will be available in

a pirated version one day after official release don't you think....Just like PC

Jeez, What me worry? I really dont know where you're going on this subject.

Macs always been way solid and way ahead of everything... simple fact!

Well worth my continued investment! from the MacPlus & Laserwriter through IIcx, Quadra, G3 and my the present day G5...and the fact that Apple bought LOGIC from eMagic wow! Grrreat! that is only good news.

 

re: the 86 thing

yeah i just because it looks like OSX is running on that machine in the video clip we've all seen floating around the net...wow there could be a mini mac under the table...and/or have you never edited a video?

Even so i'd say we all have relatively little to be worried about

except maybe that new orleans is sinking, etc! (like our local band "The Tragically Hip" used to sing) ... lucky for us apple is in cupertiino.....

except oh yeah.. they do have that volcano problem down in california, don't they?

 

PS: chris, even if that video clip is to be taken at face value and this x86 thing can actually run an OSX Finder..that's a far cry from actually running stable doing real world applications.

My crystal ball says: 2" tape...tracking live with actual musicians in the room. Tutti Benne !!!

 

Amen, Kirkeeb !

Done that, been there, read the book, seen the movie, bought the tee-shirt ......

 

Those WERE the days, my friend.

 

Don't really think I relish the thought of setting up those Studer 2" heads for a

session again, though. My old B16, on the other hand, was always immaculately behaved

and (apart from burning out a rewind motor power transistor, once) never gave

us a minute's aggro. (the remote was just diiiiii-vine ......)

 

As for real musicians, they are a bit like the old Chinese proverb says about

fish -

 

"After three days in your house, they will begin to stink ........."

 

.....What I'm going to say is a joke before I get kicked off the forum :

 

Hi Vank ! Actually, your comment is quite true !

 

No-one in their right mind, however, would use a ripped piece of software in a

commercial studio environment.

 

There is an interesting theory doing the rounds at present which states that

most people who "borrow" a piece of software from a friend or get a bummed-off

copy from Limewire or somewhere, actually do so in order to evaluate its level

of usefulness to them, and then go on to buy a legit version. Even if this somewhat

insane conjecture applies in only about 20% of cases, it probably results in new

sales for the software .............

 

Food for thought.

 

You guys are all kicked off the forum. There will be no discussions about Apple's policies. This thread is now locked.

 

Hmmm.. oh no wait.. that would be Apple's discussion board

 

Personally, I think it was about time we move to a different chip-maker, IBM is too slow at accomodating Apple's needs. I mean, how many years can you promise the G5 powerbook "next year"? If nothing else, Apple will show the industry that they are not married to any "ONE" chip-maker and will move on if the demands aren't met.

 

P-Horse, for your plug-ins worries, well the rewriting shouldn't be too difficult this time around, less difficult than from OS9 to OSX, so hopefully most plug-in manufacturers will not charge (or not charge much) for an update... we'll see.

I go with David!

Yeah, David. You raise a few pertinent points, there.

 

1. Apple policies are difficult to discern, even for ADC members of which I am one. Let alone being able to discuss them on forum. It's kind of like we are

debating what colour the sand is on Venus when no-one's been there.

 

2. With the kind of deal Apple will HAVE to sign for Intel, they effectively will

be married to one chip maker.

 

3. I can't see guys like WaveArts and iZotope doing free upgrades. We are

talking high-end mastering plug-ins, here. OK, some of the low-cost and

freebie AU writers will do the business, just for good PR, but the likes of

BIAS and WaveArts will charge like hell. Some companies who currently

furnish cross-platform solutions may do this for nothing but who knows ?

 

 

 

Well, then again at the high-end side of the spectrum things are different. The Industry considers Professional customers a little differently and understands that .... well they have money and they are willing to spend it, if that means they are going to make more money.

 

The reasoning is: if you own a Dual G5 with those plug-ins you love and it works and you are happy, well you can keep using them for as long as you want and with no extra payments. If now you want to follow the trend and have the new mac-intel computer running the new version so that you can work faster and make more money, well then you'll need to dip in your pockets for some more cash too.

 

I know it's cruel, but those are the laws of capitalicism.

 

Think of software developpers: they have to put a price on their work, and that alone is not an easy task. Most software companies actually hire other companies to ... price their software. TRUE!

 

So basically when you want to price your software, you want to try and understand how much your customers are willing to pay. For example, there's about as much R&D that went into Logic Express than into Logic Pro, only they target different customers, hence the different price.

 

I'm sure there are high-profile customers that value Logic at much more than $999/license. Once Apple figures that out, they might find a way of selling an Ultra-Pro license for $3,999? Why not? If your studio is generating $10,000/day and has an editing bench centered around a G5/Logic workstation, what's $3,999 to you?

 

So in conclusion, in an ideal world, software price should be based on ... customer revenue. You make money with our tool? How much money? Well then here's how much we want. Sort of a royalty if you want.

 

I'm not sure, those are just lose ideas from my cloudy Labor-Day eve mind. Don't quote me on all this. Just a few ideas I wanted to throw at you.

Points taken, David.

 

It's not really about money, though. It's more to do with workflow confidence

and having a stable studio which you don't mess with once it's working.

 

That reinforces my resolve this end to stay with G4 / 7.1 / Panther 10.3.9 until at

least the end of the 2006 dance season. It's rock solid. The trial Tiger 10.4.2

installation on a G5 at the other end of the studio still gives no end of trouble when we

swap dongles and try it in "evaluation" mode ! ! ! !

 

Interesting thread.

 

Isn't it the case that the Mac and its software is never going to remain stable and that in order for more software and machines to be sold, Apple have to do as much swerving around hairpin bends as possible (or tolerable by its users). Since OSX (or maybe even since Jobs' climbing back into the driving seat) the whole built-in-obsolescence truck (yes, yes, I'm pushing this metaphor too far...) seems to have accelerated to a frightening pace.

 

I'm not on Tiger yet and I can hear the kids shouting: 'What's wrong with this family? We're not on Tiger yet!'. But I note that I can still run Logic Express on my old indigo iMac - OK a little slower but for composing it's fine and dandy (I just can't slouch on the sofa like with the iBook).

 

I'm just saying that we're slaves to the whole thing and our pockets will inevitably be emptied whatever is said. Yar boo sucks...

 

And now for a Logic question...

Yeah, Marc. Right on.

 

Apols for absence, btw, There are things called PA's and gigs and

you have to do them or you starve.

 

I am really anti the whole upgrade, chasing-the-dragon thing that

is the computer scene today - not just Mac's: PC guys have this crap

to deal with, too. I suppose, like many, many people, I am with

Apple because it's NOT a PC. I find Microsoft products to be

lowest-common-denominator, annoying, technically flawed, and

frustratingly "geeky" in parts.

 

What we do here, come 2006/7, is up for debate. We may, as a previous

post has suggested, go back to 2" tape and an Atari 1040ST .....................

 

8)

...I wrote that a few days ago now and it was prophetic.

 

My iBook's died since and taken all its secrets (about 15 new songs) to the grave. Of course I was just about to back up.

 

That does it; I'm gonna find some musicians!

That does it; I'm gonna find some musicians

 

Well good luck with that. I'll take a crashing-incompatible-alert_generating-"audio-file-not-found"-computer over a flaky group of musicians any day. I mean, what's more frustrating than setting your alarm, jumping out of bed, skipping breakfast, risking a traffic ticket and then wait 50 mn for your drummer?

 

Computers need some love, that's all. Treat them well, maintain them, understand them, and they'll reward you.

 

Now the one thing your drummer will always do better is party. That's a different topic.

"No-one in their right mind, however, would use a ripped piece of software in a

commercial studio environment."

 

According to a little birdy, apparently some professional studios use the old Pro Tools Mix systems just because it doesn't require an ilok so they can use pirated plugins. Including 'cough Sony cough'.

 

THEY WRITE THEIR OWN PLUGINS!!!!!!!