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JJHP3
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10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignments

Thu May 22, 2014 9:49 am

Hi

I was reading someone else's forum post, and it got me playing with smart controls - controlling soft synth parameters by assigning an external midi slider. I do this all the time, but this time I was trying it inside a track stack and it wouldn't work. Audio or synth track, the knobs won't respond to midi. Or more accurately, I can learn the slider, but then it doesn't move the smart control and the assigned slider is no longer shown in the control bar midi input readout. Huh.

So I made a simple instrument track and it works as expected, just fine. What am I doing wrong with tracks stacks? Btw, I tested both summing and folder stacks with the same result.

Thanks for your help!

John
2020 iMac Retina / 2012 MacBookPro; LPX 10.6.1; OS 10.15.7; MOTU Ultralite Mk3; V-Synth + small modular + soft synths...
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David Nahmani
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Thu May 22, 2014 10:07 am

You should be able to assign Smart Controls inside track stacks. However keep in mind that the Smart Control panel automatically update as you select different tracks, including different SC panels for the main track and each individual sub track of a track stack. So the first question would be which Smart Controls panel are you trying to map (the SC of the main track?) and which parameters are you trying to map? For example, to map sub tracks parameters to the SC of the main track you'll have to first open the plug-ins on the sub tracks, then select the main track and map the SC on screen knobs to the plug-in knobs.
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JJHP3
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Thu May 22, 2014 10:41 am

Thanks David - as usual things are getting more confusing rather than less... for example: I have a template with 6 soft synths. On synth track 1, I have an external midi fader assigned to the smart control in the upper left, what I would call position #1. That works as expected. Then I open a different synth on track 2 and find that the same midi controller now controls whatever smart control is in position #1. And so on. My one midi fader controls all smart controls in position #1. Same for #2 etc. Is this as it should be?

I have experimented more with the track stack - I made 2 instrument tracks that work with smart controls (see above) and then put them in a summing stack and now the midi fader don't work. Sigh.

Thanks for you help!

John
2020 iMac Retina / 2012 MacBookPro; LPX 10.6.1; OS 10.15.7; MOTU Ultralite Mk3; V-Synth + small modular + soft synths...
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David Nahmani
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Thu May 22, 2014 10:45 am

John, I'm afraid I'm getting confused myself. Why don't you:
1) Give me an example of which parameter you want mapped to which on-screen SC knob when which track is selected.
2) Explain the exact procedure you're using to attempt that mapping.
3) Attach your project to this thread so I can see what you've tried.
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JJHP3
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Thu May 22, 2014 11:59 am

Thanks for your help!

1) create an instrument track.
2) choose any Logic synth
3) open smart control panel
4) choose the "first" knob and hit learn external
5) wiggle midi fader
6) works as expected.

7) Make a couple of instrument tracks as above. All instruments now automatically instantiate with the same midi fader controlling the "first" knob. This actually surprises me, but not a problem for this situation.

8. Select a couple of smart controlled instrument tracks and combine into a summing track. Now the midi fader does not affect the previously enabled "first" knob.

John
2020 iMac Retina / 2012 MacBookPro; LPX 10.6.1; OS 10.15.7; MOTU Ultralite Mk3; V-Synth + small modular + soft synths...
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JJHP3
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Fri May 23, 2014 4:06 pm

bump's. really curious about this... thanks
2020 iMac Retina / 2012 MacBookPro; LPX 10.6.1; OS 10.15.7; MOTU Ultralite Mk3; V-Synth + small modular + soft synths...
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JJHP3
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Wed May 28, 2014 7:17 am

I was hoping someone with some smarts (David?) could look at this project and see what's up with the smart controls and folders. I'm still searching for answers - Thanks, John
2020 iMac Retina / 2012 MacBookPro; LPX 10.6.1; OS 10.15.7; MOTU Ultralite Mk3; V-Synth + small modular + soft synths...
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David Nahmani
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:38 am

I finally got a chance to have a look and I can only confirm the behavior you've described. I followed your steps exactly and get the same result: when you pack instrument tracks in a summing track stack, the smart control external assignments are lost. Moving this to the bug section.
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JJHP3
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Re: LPX 10.0.7 + track stacks + midi control of smart contro

Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:03 am

Thanks for checking this out David. I will send in a bug report to Apple. -- John
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craig billingham
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:50 am

I spent ages trying to work out what was going on with my smart control mappings quite a while back.... It appears this has been a problem since its release but still no fix from apple. Its frustrating because the majority of my tracks are within stacks inside my general project template.

Don't suppose anyone has had luck getting this to work yet?
 
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Jordi Torres
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:16 pm

craig billingham wrote:
Don't suppose anyone has had luck getting this to work yet?


It's still broken (we're still on 10.0.7). Apple needs to fix it.

However, here's a workaround:

-Make your assignment.
-Click the pencil next to the assignment or use the key command (Shift-Option-K) to open the controller Assignments window.
-Go to the Expert View, select the assignment and change the "Channel Strip" parameter from "Selected Track" to "Software Instrument" (assuming you're dealing with a software instrument track) and make sure the box to the right has the appropriate channel strip number.

After doing this you'll see the external assignment in the Smart Controls inspector change to "Unassigned", but this is another bug because the assignment will continue to work.

When you're done with your assignments you can create your Track Stack and the assignment won't be lost.

J.
Et voilà!

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FlowerPower
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:50 am

I can't get Smart Controls to work outside tracks either. All I want is to add some CC#1 modulation data to a track using Native Instruments' Kontakt. So far, I haven't been able to make it - not with automation, and not by trying to record MIDI data into the region itself.

Has anyone here had any success with this? How is it supposed to work?
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cello
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:16 am

Surely a bug... I started to have the same problem after i switched to 10.0.7 from 10.0.4 (it behaved as expected before) and i just found another workaround:
after creating the stack, open the smart control panel in the main bus, then manually assign the control to the desired track's parameter. Now it should fetch midi from the controller again.
This technique can be handy to have controls over all your instruments inside a stack or map controls from different instruments to a single knob. :)

FlowerPower wrote:
I can't get Smart Controls to work outside tracks either. All I want is to add some CC#1 modulation data to a track using Native Instruments' Kontakt. So far, I haven't been able to make it - not with automation, and not by trying to record MIDI data into the region itself.

Has anyone here had any success with this? How is it supposed to work?


smart controls are limited to plug-ins parameters, if you want to automate modulation you need to use midi draw. In case you want to use a midi controller for that, your unit needs to have a knob/fader assigned to cc#1. most of the modern controllers are provided with software to change the midi mapping of the unit.
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CRSone
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:08 am

Has this bug been confirmed to be fixed? None of my external assignments can move a smart control knob. . . really annoying.


** edit, actually it works fine. Seems to be on one project none of my external assignments are scaling properly?
 
1offby
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:34 pm

I can reproduce this behavior under Logic 10.10.1
I posted it to the Apple discussion thread:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7158403
cello, when you write:
after creating the stack, open the smart control panel in the main bus, then manually assign the control to the desired track's parameter. Now it should fetch midi from the controller again.

What main bus do you mean?
 
1offby
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:16 pm

This continues on Logic 10.2. It's worth fixing.
I tried the fix proposed by Jordi, but that did not work.
I can reproduce on two systems and see other forums posting this issue
Late 2013 Mac Pro or Late 2011 MacBook Pro
OS X 10.10.4
Logic 10.2

Steps:
1) New Logic Project
2) Create a few Software Instrument Tracks
3) Assign an external MIDI controller to one of the Smart Controls for one of the Instrument Tracks
4) Make sure the external MIDI controller is controlling the Smart Control as expected
5) add all Software Instrument Tracks to a Track Stack
6) external MIDI controller stops working as expected for the track with an external MIDI controller assigned to a Smart Control

Just building a big template to take advantage of MIDI FX+Smart Controls. Lack of ability to use track stacks is a drag.

MacBook Pro (15-inch Late 2011), OS X Yosemite (10.10.4)
 
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Jordi Torres
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:09 am

Hi,

1offby wrote:
I tried the fix proposed by Jordi, but that did not work.


My workaround also works in 10.2:

CA Track Stack.gif
CA Track Stack.gif (653.93 KiB) Viewed 4523 times


Try again?

J.
Et voilà!

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Eric Cardenas
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:25 am

Your workaround works fine Jordi!
This is more of an implementation issue.

My workaround is to set the Mixer to All view.
That's all you need for the Controller Assignments to see them as selected channel strips.
Eric Bradley Cardenas
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1offby
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:30 pm

Hello all,
Thanks for the proof-of-concept .gif Jordi.
As I mess with this I am now able to add instruments with smart controls to a track stack no problem, no workaround needed.
On my personal laptop, Late 2011 MacBook Pro OS X 10.10.5

I'll try this on one of the 2013 Mac Pro rigs at work ASAP. It was there that I had trouble with this, and made my post August 30. Strange.

(I did trash the .cs file as I tried to troubleshoot on the Mac Pro FYI. Didn't help)
 
1offby
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Re: 10.0.7 track stacks lose smart controls external assignm

Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:42 am

First of all, thanks to Jordi and others on this thread.
Second, note that the solutions posted are workarounds to what is a bug in Logic X that persists in 10.2.
Finally, after testing several options I conclude that Smart Controls will lose external assignments in track stacks, even when workarounds are applied, in unpredictable ways.
To clarify:
1) Jordi, in your workaround .gif are the Smart Controls for each Software Instrument Track assigned to different CC numbers? This does seem to work.
2) If Jordi's example has different CC numbers assigned to Smart Controls that is a use case different from the one I'm trying to implement
3) In my use case Software Instruments in Track Stacks aren't only running stock Logic plugins--They have custom Smart Controls assigned to MIDI Scripter parameters
4) I want a bunch of these tracks, each with a single Smart control, all to respond to the same CC number/external controller when that track is selected. This is what seems to fail pretty consistently when the track is in a Track Stack.
5) I think that makes the Controller Assignments>Expert View>Channel Strip>Software Instrument workaround ineffective, since that binds a particular Software Instrument parameter to the controller.

TL;DR This is a bug worth fixing, even if there is a workaround. I also think the workaround is only somewhat effective.