Project Start before bar 1 various issues

Hello...

about the "Project Start before bar 1.1.1.1." several weird issues...

has anyone found a viable workaround or a way to avoid at least some of the weird issues? or is anyone able to work anyway with a project that has a few bars before bar 1 ???

starting at bar -1 -2 -3 or so is VERY IMPORTANT and CRUCIAL when working with video, and also when working with notation programs (switching back and forth from Logic to Sibelius for example) because bar numbers have to be consistent from one to another and you need to have space before bar 1 in order to place your CCs or if the tune starts with a pickup measure..

so far i've encountered these bugs (but i'm aware that there are many others):

- Step Inputting notes with MIDI IN activated doesn't work in the piano roll editor

- If i copy a region from one track to the other, it moves the copied region to bar 1 of the new track, instead of where i want to.

i reported them to the apple support.

hoping to have any suggestion from you all

thanks in advance

all the best

about the "Project Start before bar 1.1.1.1." several weird issues...

has anyone found a viable workaround or a way to avoid at least some of the weird issues?

My workaround for the past 10 years or so has been to NEVER, EVER have the project start marker at any position other than 1 1 1 1 (some of the issues also occur when the project start marker is after 1 1 1 1).

about the "Project Start before bar 1.1.1.1." several weird issues...

has anyone found a viable workaround or a way to avoid at least some of the weird issues?

My workaround for the past 10 years or so has been to NEVER, EVER have the project start marker at any position other than 1 1 1 1 (some of the issues also occur when the project start marker is after 1 1 1 1).

My conclusion as well, David, but some of my clients just will not heed this advice.

I understand that It is advised, but the problem is that it is sometimes necessary not to start at bar 1.1.1.1

I just wanted to be sure that that Apple is aware of this and that sometime in the future this will be fixed.

am I too optimistic?

thanks

I understand that It is advised, but the problem is that it is sometimes necessary not to start at bar 1.1.1.1

Then you'll have to suffer the bugs. It's your choice. There are usually workarounds to avoid moving the project start marker (for example starting your song at bar 5 or bar 9).

These issues have been going on for as long as I've used Logic (since version 4) so I wouldn't hold my breath on them being resolved anytime soon.

Here's what makes it even stranger... I know several composers (well-known, yadda yadda) whose templates are set with the start bar at 0.1.1.1 and (get this) they never have issues. Go figure!

Still, having seen enough wonky behavior on multiple systems across many many years as a result of using the negative bars area, I won't suggest that in their cases "the exception makes the rule".

Here's what makes it even stranger... I know several composers (well-known, yadda yadda) whose templates are set with the start bar at 0.1.1.1 and (get this) they never have issues. Go figure!

I can create issues on their system in seconds. They just don't use those features, so they never see those issues... but the issues are there. A simple example would be to try copy/pasting volume automation from one track to another. Works as expected when the project start marker is on 1 1 1 1, but becomes out of sync if the project start marker is anywhere else. This has been an issue since at least Logic 8, probably before.

ok, so now I need a suggestion:

all my templates have project start at -3 bars, now i want to follow your suggestions and fix them making them start at 1.1.1.1

should i just drag the left corner to 1.1.1.1 or somehow it would be better to re-built them from scratch ?

i put a lot of effort in creating them so i'm hoping that just changing the project start time and resaving them wil be enough

thanks a lot

all the best

If you don't have any automation in your project, it's more than likely you can drag the project start marker (not sure if that's the official name) right to bar 1.1.1.1.

If you can't, i.e., if it seems "stuck" or seems stubborn when you try to move it, it will likely be because you have automation somewhere that prevents it from being moved. In this case, delete all automation and try moving the thing again.

Also, make sure that you don't have any regions in the negative bars area before you try to move it.

HTH

If you don't have any automation in your project, it's more than likely you can drag the project start marker (not sure if that's the official name) right to bar 1.1.1.1.

 

If you can't, i.e., if it seems "stuck" or seems stubborn when you try to move it, it will likely be because you have automation somewhere that prevents it from being moved. In this case, delete all automation and try moving the thing again.

 

Also, make sure that you don't have any regions in the negative bars area before you try to move it.

 

HTH

thank you very much for your help Ski!

So I was doing some editing for a project, and it's a big choir. I needed to cut and past some automation settings...and I was going insane until I came and looked up this thread.

I can't believe such a simple bug fix still hasn't been solved at this point.

One future consideration for the Logic team could be to get rid of the start bar handle and let the user re-bar the bar ruler via secondary click or the sync menu. 

If I find the time I will do an animated mock-up and put it into the feature request forum as well!

for years, I started at measure 0 - cause I often use pick up notes.. And I got so used to calculating things in measures of 4 using, 1,5,9,13,17,33 etc. I made heavy use of orchestral type scores.

I really wanted to start at measure 0. After getting just too many projects getting corrupted when I got 30 - 80 hours into it I finally broke down and listened to David.. So I begrudgingly start at measure 1, and don't have those issues anymore.