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Plugins Resetting after Undo - steps to reproduce [BUG]


Mark R

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Aug 11, 2017 Notes: The steps in this first post no longer produce the error. 

Proceed to the 18th post of this thread to see the revised steps for Logic 10.3.1 

and the 29th post for Logic 10.3.2.

 

It looks like it is surprisingly easy to loose all of a project's unsaved custom plugin adjustments between saves.

It has to do with changing the order of a channel strip's plugins, then undoing that step.

I have been experiencing this Logic X phenomenon for a long time.

Currently I'm using the latest El Capitan and Logic 10.2.2.

You can confirm this behavior with any new project. I illustrated below with a new 'Multi-Track' template.

 

Five simple steps to watch your plugin adjustments reset!

1: Open ‘New from Template’, and select the ‘Multi-Track’ template.

2: In Channel Strip #1 - Open the compressor and click on the ‘Studio VCA’ button.

3: In Channel Strip #2 - manually modify the eq curve.

4: In Channel Strip #3 - change (reverse) the order of the two Comp / Chan EQ plugins.

5: Hit ‘Undo’ - and observe stunning misbehavior.

 

941071661_ScreenBeforepluginorderUndo.png.3dcf8ce3482c3c8122c3e8a8d25c66a3.png

1930319415_ScreenAfterpluginorderUndo.png.3adbfc0b509e5647096228952505b6a9.png

 

Note: Normally, it is hard to notice these changes because they often happen to plugins in channels other than where your attention is. I need to test further to see if saving the project before doing this undo step helps prevent this resetting. (I'm not in the habit of committing to frequent saves while testing ideas and experimenting.)

 

Not a fix, but I have begun keeping my Undo History window open and watching out for crossing over an undo step called "Change Plugin in Channel Strip" where I might have performed an FX reordering.

 

So for now - Beware undoing after reordering an FX stack.

If you guys can confirm this we can file bug reports to Apple.

Edited by Mark R
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It reproduces here quite consistently,

maybe because I am keeping it very simple and relaunching Logic before each test.

 

Here is .gif example using the 'Electronic' template.

 

On two separate channels I made colorful (easy to see) changes to the Compressor and the Retro Synth plugins.

On a 3rd channel I swapped the order of 2 plugins then hit undo.

 

And to illustrate a bit further - I made another change and then lost the ability to restore my colorful adjustments.

 

1600656868_PluginReorderUndo.thumb.gif.2a960387d4c2dc271a41cb13e0217903.gif

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I found an easy way to replicate this 100%

 

  1. Create a new empty template with two tracks.
  2. Insert an EQ on both tracks.
  3. Make a change to the first EQ. Keep the plug-in window visible.
  4. Move the EQ on the second track down one slot and undo.

 

It's the Compare button that is being triggered by the slot change and then the undo resorts to the previous saved state.

Pretty nasty.

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I found an easy way to replicate this 100%

 

  1. Create a new empty template with two tracks.
  2. Insert an EQ on both tracks.
  3. Make a change to the first EQ. Keep the plug-in window visible.
  4. Move the EQ on the second track down one slot and undo.

 

It's the Compare button that is being triggered by this undo.

 

Great find Eric!

 

I'm noticing these things this morning:

 

If you close the plug-in window before hitting undo, the plug-in will not reset.

However - Redo and Undo a second time and the hidden plug-in will reset. Inconsistent, yes.

Clicking on the compare button doesn't bring back plug-in edits.

(Hasn't the compare button been buggy for some time?)

Saving before undoing didn't prevent the reset.

 

So the only work around to prevent this issue for now is to keep the Undo History window open.

I am careful to not undo a step called "Change Plugin in Channel Strip",

where I might have moved a plug-in. (see below)

 

848087545_ScreenShot2016-05-20at8_10_33AM.png.dc840fdb426692f677fee99870471fa5.png

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If you close the plug-in window before hitting undo, the plug-in will not reset.

However - Redo and Undo a second time and the hidden plug-in will reset. Inconsistent, yes.

 

Exactly. This is why I specifically mentioned to keep the window open.

And this is also why it was inconsistent.

 

Clicking on the compare button doesn't bring back plug-in edits.

 

Correct, I had changed the wording on that sentence but you had already quoted me.

The plug-in move resets the Compare button without actually altering the setting itself the undo then triggers a " go back to the previous setting without it now being re resettable.

Moving a plug-in is only one scenario when this can happen. Inserting an EQ/Compressor by clicking on their viewers will also trigger this. Changing a channel strip setting will also trigger similar behaviour.

 

So the only work around to prevent this issue for now is to keep the Undo History window open.

I am careful to not undo a step called "Change Plugin in Channel Strip",

where I might have moved a plug-in. (see below)

 

Whatever works.

I use undo often when I'm editing but go into a totally different mode when mixing. This is probably why I haven't been bitten by this bug.

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I use undo often when I'm editing but go into a totally different mode when mixing. This is probably why I haven't been bitten by this bug.

Same here. There's not much you can undo on channel strips and plug-ins, so I never use undo when using those. Logic does not track plug-in parameter value changes, so the last action logged into the undo history is "Change Plug-in in Channel Strip".

 

For example if you insert a plug-in (effect or instrument) and start tweaking, you could tweak for a long time, then if you undo, the plug-in is removed from the channel strip and all your tweaking is lost.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't even have to hit undo for this to happen, all I need to do is create a new song and start working as normal, adding instruments and tweaking their sounds, playing and organizing some MIDI regions etc. - the first time I 'save as', one or more instruments will have changed their sounds, either to a default preset or to a completely random one. Sometimes if I use two instances of the same instrument, they will suddenly both have the same sound/preset.

 

Started in 10.2.1 for me and keeps happening on a weekly basis in 10.2.2. Does anyone know if this has been fixed in 2.3?

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 months later...

10.3 fixed the 2 scenarios I posted about earlier in this tread so progress has been made on this issue. 

But... 

I am still finding scenarios (such as Eric's 9th post in this thread) where this issue still occurs.

 

The good news now is that pressing save (command-S) after performing parameter editing greatly (always?) helps to prevent plugins from resetting.

 

Here are some simple steps to reproduce.

 

  1. Open a new empty project with one track.
  2. Insert a "Test Oscillator" and in its plugin window turn its "Level" knob (above the DIM button) all the way down. 
  3. On the Stereo Out track insert an EQ.
  4. Move the EQ down one slot, then undo.

 

I used the Test Osc for this example because you not only see this questionable behavior, you also hear it when it happens. On the 2 macs I tried this on, the Test Oscillator resets to its default patch, becoming audible. 

Note: doing a project save after step 2 prevents the reset.

 

So, in review,  I'm finding that if I move an FX plugin's vertical location, then undo it, the most recent parameter edits to a plugin on another track will also become undone.  

Frequent saving of the project after parameter editing greatly helps prevent this.

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I just modified the brilliantly simple example you provided above. 

 

We had fun with this at the Seattle Logic Users Group meeting a few nights ago by setting the example TestOsc to a 1 sec Sine Sweep. When the bug occurred it sounded like a car alarm going off.

 

Hope this gets all the way fixed.

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Hey Guys, even though this has been widely discussed and I can´t add helpful information I just have to get confirmation this is still a thing.. 

 

I did vocal editing on several tracks, copied third party compressors and eq´s over from one track to the next and all plugin parameters where reset to default. this error occured randomly, sometimes it worked correctly, sometimes it didn´t. no undo steps in between copying. 

 

Also I have my own parameter settings saved as default, and upon loading a new instance it randomly either showed my settings or the used-to-be default settings from the plugin. 

 

Pardon my french, but this is creepy a.f... But I´m not alone with this, am I? 

 

El Capitan, LPX 10.3, MacBook Pro Early 2013

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Eric,

 

You are adding one step to my (18th post) scenario. Try it while leaving the TestOsc open.

I'm simulating a situation where I'm customizing a synth patch and leaving it open while I'm adjusting FX on a different channel strip (such as an Aux).

 

Curious if this triggers the reset on your gear. It does on all 3 systems I've been around lately.

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  • 4 months later...

Hi Eric! This seems much improved in 10.3.2! 

Most of the time I'm finding that undoing plugin moves won't mess with other plugins knob settings. However, I did find that by changing the 4th step in my previous post I can still trigger the problem.

 

  1. Open a new empty project with one audio track.
  2. Insert a "Test Oscillator" on the audio track and in its plugin window turn its "Level" knob (above the DIM button) all the way down. (leave this plugin window open)
  3. On the Stereo Out track insert a channel EQ.
  4. Move that EQ to the audio track under the Test Oscillator, then undo.

 

Unfortunately, the setting change to the Oscillator plugin are still being undone by undoing the EQ plugin move.

 

Curiously, if you close the Test Oscillator plugin window after step 2 the Oscillator settings will hold through step 4.  However, if you then performing a Redo followed by another Undo, the problem will trigger again.

(This suggests that closing plugin windows after adjustments might be a good way decrease the chances of unwanted setting changes.)

 

All this show that much work has been done to correct the initial problem, but all is not 100% reliable yet.

Edited by Mark R
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