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Plug-in Delay Compensation broken with external side-chain


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  • 1 month later...
10.6.3 is still buggy :

 

Even tho the compressor is diabled the PDC freaks out

 

Wow, that's messed up! You should report that to Apple together with that video and a demo project. https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html

 

For me, I'm moving over to Ableton since I'm sick of all the bugs in Logic.

 

Interesting is that this seam to only happen when playing live but not on playback. need more tests.

It also happens with 3rd party plugins, once we selct anything else than internal as sidechain input.

 

Interesting is that only the second channel in the video is delayed, and not teh first ?!

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Steps to reproduce this bug:

 

1.) Create an new Project with an empty Channelstrip:

1428519792_Screenshot2021-08-22at14_45_58.thumb.png.fd452942f58d0fd72f1639028746d66d.png

 

2.) Load the Coffee Shop Channelstrip Preset:

487087279_Screenshot2021-08-22at14_46_19.thumb.png.518eb4d2dbce9e6b4fb4f4f0e4621f1d.png

 

3.) Add another Channel and add an instance of Alchemy

219640481_Screenshot2021-08-22at14_46_43.thumb.png.f1f5c798f0ca58b1a5fdcd03e37fe737.png

 

4.) Now record enable both channels and play some notes,

Result: Alchemy and the Drums from the Coffee Shop Preset play tight together :

515435933_Screenshot2021-08-22at14_47_02.thumb.png.20b92da8de7e878830f286774975408e.png

 

5.) After that, open the compressor of the CoffeeShop Track, select anything else but internal as input and play again some notes.

Result: The Alchemy channel plays a lot later than the Coffee Shop Percussion sound.

170733224_Screenshot2021-08-22at14_47_23.thumb.png.714ab9d05736cd454e34e091baedac16.png

I tried reproducing it with just 2 channels of Alchemy and a compressor, but that didn't trigger that behaviour!

 

Maybe anyone else understand why and when this happens ?

Edited by ansolas
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Steps to reproduce this bug:

 

Hi. I don't know why this is happening, but I can confirm that I can reproduce this on my system as well, so it looks like yet another bug. Logic is riddled with them. Did you report it to Apple?

 

Over the last few months, I've spent more time finding workarounds for bugs than I have making music. My previous system was plagued with problems. Almost every time I sat down to produce, something would go wrong and I'd have find a workaround. I eventually took the huge step of upgrading my computer and installing EVERYTHING from scratch on the new machine. Although that solved some of the bigger issues, I am absolutely disgusted to see that a lot of the problems I was having on my previous system are present on the new one as well. I just don't understand how/why Logic is so buggy.

 

I haven't had much experience using any of the other DAW's, but surely they can't all be as buggy as this?

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Steps to reproduce this bug:

 

Hi. I don't know why this is happening, but I can confirm that I can reproduce this on my system as well, so it looks like yet another bug. Logic is riddled with them. Did you report it to Apple?

 

Over the last few months, I've spent more time finding workarounds for bugs than I have making music. My previous system was plagued with problems. Almost every time I sat down to produce, something would go wrong and I'd have find a workaround. I eventually took the huge step of upgrading my computer and installing EVERYTHING from scratch on the new machine. Although that solved some of the bigger issues, I am absolutely disgusted to see that a lot of the problems I was having on my previous system are present on the new one as well. I just don't understand how/why Logic is so buggy.

 

I haven't had much experience using any of the other DAW's, but surely they can't all be as buggy as this?

Yeah I posted the report to apple, it would be nice if we would get feedback, if anyone read it at all.... tho !

 

Other DAWs also have bugs, I never have used any DAW where I haven't found a bug.

But something essential like sidechain is bad. At least Logic runs stable here.

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Steps to reproduce this bug:

 

Hi. I don't know why this is happening, but I can confirm that I can reproduce this on my system as well, so it looks like yet another bug. Logic is riddled with them. Did you report it to Apple?

 

Over the last few months, I've spent more time finding workarounds for bugs than I have making music. My previous system was plagued with problems. Almost every time I sat down to produce, something would go wrong and I'd have find a workaround. I eventually took the huge step of upgrading my computer and installing EVERYTHING from scratch on the new machine. Although that solved some of the bigger issues, I am absolutely disgusted to see that a lot of the problems I was having on my previous system are present on the new one as well. I just don't understand how/why Logic is so buggy.

 

I haven't had much experience using any of the other DAW's, but surely they can't all be as buggy as this?

 

Exactly this. The past year (and especially the past months) have been horrible in terms of flow inside of Logic. The bugs have been killing my creativity.

 

I'm slowly migrating to Ableton Live and it's been a treat to work with so far. Still going to use Logic when I need to open older projects or when I need a specific sound or instrument from it by bouncing out stems and importing them into Ableton.

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Hi. I don't know why this is happening, but I can confirm that I can reproduce this on my system as well, so it looks like yet another bug. Logic is riddled with them. Did you report it to Apple?

 

Over the last few months, I've spent more time finding workarounds for bugs than I have making music. My previous system was plagued with problems. Almost every time I sat down to produce, something would go wrong and I'd have find a workaround. I eventually took the huge step of upgrading my computer and installing EVERYTHING from scratch on the new machine. Although that solved some of the bigger issues, I am absolutely disgusted to see that a lot of the problems I was having on my previous system are present on the new one as well. I just don't understand how/why Logic is so buggy.

 

I haven't had much experience using any of the other DAW's, but surely they can't all be as buggy as this?

 

Exactly this. The past year (and especially the past months) have been horrible in terms of flow inside of Logic. The bugs have been killing my creativity.

 

I'm slowly migrating to Ableton Live and it's been a treat to work with so far. Still going to use Logic when I need to open older projects or when I need a specific sound or instrument from it by bouncing out stems and importing them into Ableton.

 

Good luck with Ableton. When I have some downtime, I'm going to start using Ableton so I can properly compare it to Logic on my own system. I was always reluctant to do this in the past because I thought Logic devs would have these issues resolved by now. The thing is that I don't use a ton of 3rd party stuff. My set up is very basic, so there is no reason that Logic should be so temperamental. It very annoying being forced to use a different DAW, but I have been left with no choice. It's clear that Logic will continue to be very buggy for a long time to come :cry:

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  • 4 weeks later...

David brought this topic to my attention as I struggled with new latency issues since upgrading to 10.6.3

In my case it was somehow connected to adding a drummer track to my template. The latency is gone as soon as I change a compressor's (which is NOT on the drummer track) input from a bus for sidechain to "internal". Or when deleting the drummer track the latency is gone as well. Easiest workaround without changing any routing, sidechain or drummer track is in my case to switch Low Latency mode on.

Here's a link to the topic: Drummer Track with Multi Output Causing Latency?

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Exactly this. The past year (and especially the past months) have been horrible in terms of flow inside of Logic. The bugs have been killing my creativity.

 

I'm slowly migrating to Ableton Live and it's been a treat to work with so far. Still going to use Logic when I need to open older projects or when I need a specific sound or instrument from it by bouncing out stems and importing them into Ableton.

 

Good luck with Ableton. When I have some downtime, I'm going to start using Ableton so I can properly compare it to Logic on my own system. I was always reluctant to do this in the past because I thought Logic devs would have these issues resolved by now. The thing is that I don't use a ton of 3rd party stuff. My set up is very basic, so there is no reason that Logic should be so temperamental. It very annoying being forced to use a different DAW, but I have been left with no choice. It's clear that Logic will continue to be very buggy for a long time to come :cry:

 

Reaper is also a very good alternative, if not the best .

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Reaper is also a very good alternative, if not the best .

"But wait! REAPER has no Low Latency Mode." I hear you say.

Well, now there's this free REAPER script extension, which provides such feature for REAPER. :mrgreen:

ak5k_Low latency monitoring

For me it is more Like, "Reaper is missing all Logic Instruments and Effects", and what about MCU implementation ?

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"But wait! REAPER has no Low Latency Mode." I hear you say.

Well, now there's this free REAPER script extension, which provides such feature for REAPER. :mrgreen:

ak5k_Low latency monitoring

For me it is more Like, "Reaper is missing all Logic Instruments and Effects", and what about MCU implementation ?

 

Well, you could always use both DAWs. If there's a specific sound you want from Logic then simply bounce it out to Reaper.

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For me it is more Like, "Reaper is missing all Logic Instruments and Effects", and what about MCU implementation ?

 

Well, you could always use both DAWs. If there's a specific sound you want from Logic then simply bounce it out to Reaper.

Ofcourse, but that's less convenient, than maintaining just one DAW.(atm I use StudioOne and Logic) Does reaper fully suport the MCU Protocol Or have its own support for Behringer X-touches ?

 

[EDIT] MCU/Reaper related:

https://gearspace.com/board/cockos-reaper/1251074-control-surfaces-reaper-really-2.html

Sounds rather tedious, that it works out of teh box in logic.

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Of course!

Even here? (Feedback Assist):

Screenshot 2021-10-04 at 10.59.19.png

 

That's what I was asking above, since most just report using the online form.

Apple sometimes even answers in teh Assist and request more info.

 

Just curious

No only on the website.

I wasn't aware about your link.

Does that make a difference?

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Not sure if others are noticing this but 10.6.3 is super inconsistent with timing now... Some PDC yes, has been solved. But other issues now crop up (all of which I've reported multiple times to Logic feedback so far...)

 

- Plugins that are time based like Tremolo, LFO Tool, etc, on channels all go out of time now, depending on what else is on the channel and/or if using side chain in compressor say. This is new, as I never had an issue with these being out of time before on channels, only busses... This is a huge issue that breaks old sessions.

 

- Melodyne playback after transferred is messed... if you remove or add latency plugins after, playback goes wildly out of time

 

- Playback when in low latency mode is totally messed up at times... Switch to Low Latency, and things are wildly out of time from each other until you switch back on.

 

Whatever structural changes they did to solve the PDC issue has caused a whole other set of inconsistencies.... This is a huge red flag for me, since we now have 2 different systems in play (10.6.2/10.6.2 and before)... both play back with different timing issues. If they solve it again, and timing changes again, then we have 3 different playback systems. I'm losing confidence for the first time in repeatability. Which is scary.

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Not sure if others are noticing this but 10.6.3 is super inconsistent with timing now... Some PDC yes, has been solved. But other issues now crop up (all of which I've reported multiple times to Logic feedback so far...)

 

- Plugins that are time based like Tremolo, LFO Tool, etc, on channels all go out of time now, depending on what else is on the channel and/or if using side chain in compressor say. This is new, as I never had an issue with these being out of time before on channels, only busses... This is a huge issue that breaks old sessions.

 

- Melodyne playback after transferred is messed... if you remove or add latency plugins after, playback goes wildly out of time

 

- Playback when in low latency mode is totally messed up at times... Switch to Low Latency, and things are wildly out of time from each other until you switch back on.

 

Whatever structural changes they did to solve the PDC issue has caused a whole other set of inconsistencies.... This is a huge red flag for me, since we now have 2 different systems in play (10.6.2/10.6.2 and before)... both play back with different timing issues. If they solve it again, and timing changes again, then we have 3 different playback systems. I'm losing confidence for the first time in repeatability. Which is scary.

 

I'm coming across all sorts of bugs too. Ones I've never seen before - graphical problems, audio issues, automation bugs. It's just endless. Logic is broken!

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