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Problem with Live Loops, first notes don't play on first loop playback


alexwnbrg

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Hey guys,

 

I just updated to 10.5. I was so excited when I recently found out Logic was introducing a session view like functionality to Logic. I always thought this would make it the ultimate software! I really want to use this for a live looping situation. The problem I'm running into is whenever I record a new midi cell, the first playback will leave off the first note or chord I play. The second time around it will play it, so I know it's not an issue of hitting it before the downbeat and it not registering. Is there any fix for this right now? Can't seem to find anything in preferences regarding cells. Thank you!

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That was my first thought as well. It's not though, I experimented with coming in on the & of 1 and other variations. Also, the fact that it plays the second time around means that it's registering the midi note, but just not sounding the first time. Seems like a bug, although maybe there is something I'm missing.
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  • 5 months later...
  • 3 years later...

This bug is still present in Logic 10.8 and in Logic for iPad. I've reported it even though they had probably been aware of it already.

Anyway, I may have found something that can be used as a workaround in many scenarios. 

1. Map a MIDI command, lets call it A, to Live Loop Row parameter marked in the attached screen shot

2. Map another MIDI command, lets call it B, to Trigger Cells or Scene key command

3. Start recording into a cell as you normally would

4. When you want to stop recording and start playing the cell, send A followed by B sequence somehow. What this does is stopping the cell before starting playing it again instead of immediately starting playing as it normally happens without this workaround. This stopping makes Logic correctly playing all the notes of the first chord on first loop playback

Sending A followed by B can be done manually with a MIDI controller/pedal that can send multiple MIDI commands from a single button.

If we want a predetermined cell recording length, there are many ways to achieve that. We can use Scripter + External Instrument to IAC or something else programable that can send MIDI to Logic from outside.

I also experimented with using dummy cells with empty MIDI region for controlling cell recording length. The dummy cell's track is an external instrument track that sends MIDI to IAC and the input for A and is set to IAC in the Controller Assignments. The dummy cells must have their Loop option turned off as we only want to play them once during recording. The empty region length is set to desired number of bars. We can then send A followed by B shortly after the last recording bar starts (assuming that Quantize Start is set to 1 bar). The dummy cell must be triggered each time we trigger recording. As it doesn't loop, it will send A followed by B only during recording, but not during playback. We can have multiple dummy cells for different cell lengths. 

Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 19.14.55.png

Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 19.29.41.png

Edited by ivicam
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There is a better workaround.

1. Create an empty MIDI cell of desired length inside the track you want to record (right click, Create MIDI Cell. There is no key command for this unfortunately)

2. Turn off looping for the created MIDI cell (L key command)

3. Record into a cell (Option-R key command)

4. The cell will start playing after recording and all the recorded MIDI notes will be played properly as expected. After the cell starts playing, turn on the looping (L key command) so that playing continues the first cycle

All of the above can be MIDI-mapped for hands-free looping except creation of empty MIDI cells, but that's not a huge problem as it can be done in advance.

This is only needed when there is a chord at the very beginning of the cell. Only in that case Logic fails to play all the notes from the chord on first loop playback. In all the other cases live loops work as expected without this workaround. And this has nothing to do with MIDI chase settings, it's a bug in love loops.

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On 12/10/2023 at 1:29 PM, ivicam said:

Ah, I was wrong. Even MDI cell/region creation can be MIDI-mapped. 🙂

I do appreciate that the devs exposed so many parameters to us when creating Live Loops, but I think one of the core shortcomings of Live Loops is I rarely have to think about any of these parameters and behaviors when I am working with someone who uses Ableton Live. As a complete layperson in that DAW, the absolute most basic default behavior seems to be miles more intuitive than what happens in Logic. 
 

It feels like in the effort to outdo the competition something went terribly wrong. I still use Live Loops a lot because, well, I don’t have any alternative lol 🙂

Edited by sunbrother
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23 minutes ago, sunbrother said:

I do appreciate that the devs exposed so many parameters to us when creating Live Loops, but I think one of the core shortcomings of Live Loops is I rarely have to think about any of these parameters and behaviors when I am working with someone who uses Ableton Live.

Session View in Ableton Live is definitely better and significantly more powerful than Live Loops. Which is not surprising given that they invented the paradigm and had more than two decades to perfect it.

However, what I described above is needed because of a bug, not by design. Without that bug, Logic's Live Loops should work in a very similar way as Live's Session View.  For example, if you record guitar or other audio or if you don't play a chord at the beginning of the cell, it should just work with the default settings.

Which other issues have you encountered?

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2 hours ago, ivicam said:

Session View in Ableton Live is definitely better and significantly more powerful than Live Loops. Which is not surprising given that they invented the paradigm and had more than two decades to perfect it.

However, what I described above is needed because of a bug, not by design. Without that bug, Logic's Live Loops should work in a very similar way as Live's Session View.  For example, if you record guitar or other audio or if you don't play a chord at the beginning of the cell, it should just work with the default settings.

Which other issues have you encountered?

Your workaround to the bug is helpful, but it doesn’t change the fact that the system is clunky. If I don’t fully set up how every cell works beforehand, and in some cases make empty cells like you mentioned, it’s very hard to hit record, play 2 bars, stop recording, and have it play the right thing back. Often it will play either 3 bars, or 2 bars plus 1 beat, or play 2 bars but offset the beginning of the cell.

Also when I set it to record takes into a cell it only seems to do it half the time.

Which of these might be bugs, I don’t know. I’m pretty sure there’s one or two with how it seems to use Region Folders behind the scenes, but I’ve never taken the time to figure out what was amiss there.

Edited by sunbrother
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2 hours ago, sunbrother said:

If I don’t fully set up how every cell works beforehand, and in some cases make empty cells like you mentioned, it’s very hard to hit record, play 2 bars, stop recording, and have it play the right thing back.

With or without empty cells, if you set Rec-Length parameter to Cell Length, playback automatically starts after Cell Length number of bars. That frees you from having to stop recording manually on time. 

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1 hour ago, Atlas007 said:

I wonder if it would be easier or the issue would still be there if one would proceed by recording in a regular track, and then move that to the cell?

I think that the issue is present only in Live Loops, not in the normal track view with a cycle on. Which approach is easier is, I guess, individual. 

Edited by ivicam
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