Score Writing

Hi everyone,

I'm completely new to Logic Studio (I have Logic Pro 9), and I want to write a score. I have several questions, which I'll list below:

1) Whenever I drag and drop an eighth note into the score, it gives me a quarter note, which I can then correct by adding another eighth note right next to it (or whatever values). This is a very confusing, overly complicated, and apparently pointless way of going about things. Is there a simpler, more direct way I can write in the note values I want?

2) How do I create ties? The help menu said something about an Event Parameter Box, but I'm still clueless.

3) How do I create triplets? I tried dragging and dropping the little eighth notes with 3s over them, but it didn't work.

4) How do I play back what I've written and make a recording of it in Logic Studio?

5) When I drag and drop a sharp or flat note in the score, the program consistently assigns the note the same accidental (i.e., there are always A-flats, but never G-sharps, etc.) However, as any musician knows, in some contexts, G-sharp is the correct spelling. In those cases, I dragged and dropped a G, then added a sharp manually. Will this accidental transfer properly to the audio recording?

I know this is a lot, but I haven't found any website or technical support place that has the answers, and in my opinion, the $200 tutorials that some websites try to sell you are nothing short of robbery.

Thanks so much!

Hi everyone,

 

I'm completely new to Logic Studio (I have Logic Pro 9), and I want to write a score. I have several questions, which I'll list below:

 

1) Whenever I drag and drop an eighth note into the score, it gives me a quarter note, which I can then correct by adding another eighth note right next to it (or whatever values). This is a very confusing, overly complicated, and apparently pointless way of going about things. Is there a simpler, more direct way I can write in the note values I want?

 

2) How do I create ties? The help menu said something about an Event Parameter Box, but I'm still clueless.

 

3) How do I create triplets? I tried dragging and dropping the little eighth notes with 3s over them, but it didn't work.

 

4) How do I play back what I've written and make a recording of it in Logic Studio?

 

5) When I drag and drop a sharp or flat note in the score, the program consistently assigns the note the same accidental (i.e., there are always A-flats, but never G-sharps, etc.) However, as any musician knows, in some contexts, G-sharp is the correct spelling. In those cases, I dragged and dropped a G, then added a sharp manually. Will this accidental transfer properly to the audio recording?

 

I know this is a lot, but I haven't found any website or technical support place that has the answers, and in my opinion, the $200 tutorials that some websites try to sell you are nothing short of robbery.

 

Thanks so much!

1: That's Interpretion. It allows staccato 1/4 noyes to display as 1/4s.Turn Interpretation off and see the diff.

2: Ties are created automatically when notes exceed a certain length (easiest to edit in Piano Roll),but you can apply manual ties too.

3:Triplets can be tricky,depending what you're doing,but using the Pencil tool rather than drag n drop might help,as may the quantize setting.

4: To play it back you need to select a Software Instrument for the track it's on.

5: Under Attributes,choose enharmonic force/dereat (or whatever)

6: RTM

2: Ties are created automatically when notes exceed a certain length (easiest to edit in Piano Roll),but you can apply manual ties too.

Sorry Mr. Moth, but no, you can't. You can "fake" ties by using slurs, but the results are usually less than desirable.

Thanks for your responses. I'm still a little confused, though.

1) Still not sure about the ties or the triplets. I'm a real simpleton with this, so could someone just give me some specifics, like which buttons to press, where these buttons are located, etc.? And what/where is the Event Parameter Box? (I'm in the orchestral score window, not the arrange window.)

2) New problem: when I imported the score into the arrange window and tried to play it, no sound came out. Is there some special audio setting I need?

Thanks!

Diane, I'm afraid that nothing anyone's going to tell you here is going to make much of a difference (or maybe even make any sense) unless you've already done some of the legwork yourself by first reading the manual, doing some experimenting on your own, and getting familiar with some of the functions and terminology. That aside, answers to almost all of the questions you posted in your first post can be found in the manual. For example, you asked about the location of the event parameters. Well, it's described in the first few pages of the manual's score editor section. Time to crack that PDF.

Er, you DO have the manual, don't you?

2: Ties are created automatically when notes exceed a certain length (easiest to edit in Piano Roll),but you can apply manual ties too.

 

Sorry Mr. Moth, but no, you can't. You can "fake" ties by using slurs, but the results are usually less than desirable.

Pedant!

(Assumes diminutive stature and Irish-American NY accent): "Wanna fight about it?".

I've taken yet another look at the manual that came with the software, and once again, I see no section that tells you how to work with the score window (not the arrange window). Allow me to clarify my project: I have a handwritten score that I would like to write on the computer--that is, I don't have any sound files that I'm trying to manipulate in the arrange window. I only have an old-fashioned, handwritten score. However, it is not clear to me how to create ties or triplets in the score window, and the program's help section does not offer very useful guidance with this. If someone could at least point me in the right direction, or point me to a page in the manual that I've somehow missed, I would be extremely grateful--even if you think I won't understand what you say, it would be nice if you gave it a shot.

Thanks.

Search for :

Working with notation

in the Help thingy.

I know it's heavy for a newby;I was one once.

Or maybe twice.

Thrice on a bad day.

Stick with it it and you'll be McMazed.

(But only if you have Celtic knees).

Hic.

Yeah, if you just type in "score" into the search field of the PDF you're not going to get much joy. Start with: Contents on page 12 and check out chapter 31 "Working with Notation". Click on any of the topics to go straight to the descriptions.

Check out "getting to know the score editor".

Ah, Beer Moth beat me to it! That's what I get for answering the phone in the middle of a post. Pesky outside world, always interrupting.

That's what you get for starting a phone sex hotline!

I've taken yet another look at the manual that came with the software, and once again, I see no section that tells you how to work with the score window (not the arrange window). Allow me to clarify my project: I have a handwritten score that I would like to write on the computer--that is, I don't have any sound files that I'm trying to manipulate in the arrange window. I only have an old-fashioned, handwritten score. However, it is not clear to me how to create ties or triplets in the score window, and the program's help section does not offer very useful guidance with this. If someone could at least point me in the right direction, or point me to a page in the manual that I've somehow missed, I would be extremely grateful--even if you think I won't understand what you say, it would be nice if you gave it a shot.

 

Thanks.

Hi,

Based on what you have written, you may be better off trying 'other' software more suited to beginners for writing up scores. Logic IS capable of doing what you want, but you have to do it the way Logic needs to work, not the other way around.

The manual will be helpful if you know what you are doing to begin with. Otherwise, you will need to experiment and have an 'A-Ha' moment.

I believe Ski works with scores as part of his income. I am not sure if his other job as an assistant poolboy is professional or for pleasure. I really don't want to know either ... ♫ La, la, la, la, la ... ♬

In any event, consider his word as Gospel when it comes to Logic's Score feature. He has credentials to back it up.

Many people here offer assistance for problems that may develop and are not here to offer Tutorial 101 classes. That's the reason some people have taken the time and trouble to make tutorial videos and charge accordingly.

I personally do not work with the Score feature, but I went there to see how difficult creating a 'Triplet' was.

I first made a region in the arrange window, opened the score window, dragged a quarter note to the staff. I then dragged the [n] over the quarter note and a window opened asking what values I wanted. I set it to 1/4 triplets and then added two more quarter notes.

I discovered that by dragging a note closer or further away from the note next to it would change the values.

So I had a few 'A-Ha' moments.

Sometimes I will download midi files and view them in the Score window. This saves me so much time compared to manually entering everything.

I believe if Bach had tried to use Logic as a writing tool, he would have given up music altogether.

Ah, Beer Moth beat me to it! That's what I get for answering the phone in the middle of a post. Pesky outside world, always interrupting.

 

That's what you get for starting a phone sex hotline!

Yeah, well, with the glut in the poolboy market, I decided to start my own business.

Also another good notation/scoring program for this is Notion 3.

Versions 3 just came out and I'm using it instead of logic for writing and composing. You can export the audio performance as a .wav file

into Logic to edit, add other instruments, etc.

Notion is bridging the gap between DAW and notation apps like

Finale, Overture or Sibelius.

A demo is available from their web site.

All the best!

philuilleann

It's the pool boy...

I'm not sure what the difficulty is here, or why other notation applications have to be suggested (not that there's anything wrong with that, but... well, read on). As Mr. Moth said, there's an entire section on the score editor in the manual. Pages and pages of it. Now don't get me wrong, it's not like I (and others) don't love to help people out with the score editor here on the forum, but what you're asking is so basic that I can't help but think that you either don't have a manual or just haven't bothered to read the one you do have.

Oh but wait, there's more... you haven't indicated WHAT version of Logic you're running because you haven't entered your system's info in your user profile (signature section) as we request in our Forum Guidelines. So you're not helping us help you by not providing enough information.

See? So now that you've gotten your slap on the wrist, I'll give you a small head start...

Logic 8 Manual: page 667 -- "Working with Notation"

Logic 9 Manual: page 857 -- "Working with Notation"

In the first several pages of the manual it talks about why the score editor displays notes the way it does, and later goes on to discuss ties and interpretation.

Oh, one more lil' hint... you can never ever ever ever manually insert a tie in Logic. There's no need to, as Logic creates ties automatically. For example, if you enter a quarter note on the second 8th note of a measure it will appear as two tied eighths. No need to manually draw in two eighth notes and then tie them together. That would be 3 operations. Logic lets you do it in one.

So RTM and then get back to us if you have questions after you've gotten your feet wet with the score editor. Then we'd be happy to help, I'm sure. But generally speaking, we tend not to spoon-feed here.

OK?

OK!

... you can never ever ever ever manually insert a tie in Logic. There's no need to, as Logic creates ties automatically. For example, if you enter a quarter note on the second 8th note of a measure it will appear as two tied eighths. No need to manually draw in two eighth notes and then tie them together. That would be 3 operations. Logic lets you do it in one.

 

!

That's sort of when I have to use a slur as a tie,

F'rinstance on the last 8th of a bar I want a tied pair of 8ths over the bar line so they are consistent with forced synco 4ths between 1 n 2 and 3 n 4,but I want 'em short. Doo bop bop bop bop bop bi dop.

Either I have to do a score version and an aural version,or I resort to slurs for ties.

Depends.

Unless you have a better trick?!

Please!

8)

I don't doo bop so you'd have to show me a zample of what yer talkin' 'bout Mr. Coltrane if this isn't what you mean...

Want artic to be like this: but dots as in the lower pic.

No actual fake ties were used in the making of these screenshots. Some note names changed to protect the un-boppified.

OK.

I want the note duration as in all 8ths,but the notation as in your lower pic.

So as to avoid bottom references.

If you get what I mean...

Now I'm totally confused... how is the top pic not what you need to see exactly and stuff? I know you said you want the note durations to be all eighths, but then you wouldn't have a note tied over the bar. Unless you're writing for strings and you want them to lift off on that tied eighth (hooked bowing I think it's called, and in that case you'd want a staccato mark on that tied eighth-- totally possible too without having to make it a separate note). But I have the feeling I'm digressing. Please 'splain Loocy.

OK.

We have doo bop bop bop bop di bop.

All the bops should be equal length (much easier to read) and therefore all staccato 4ths.

But if you want the thing to sound like that on playback with a soft inst it burgers the notation up.

Ideally it'd be great if midi meaning was disableable for score display,so you could have short syncopations in playback by sticking an accent or dot over the note(s) without it affecting the way it looks in score.

Extreme Swing quantizes are a pain too.

Great, gotcha. So... with the spirit of McCoy Tyner now hovering over me, I feel qualified to answer the queschink.

"In Logic" he began, his voice quivering slightly due only to the previous night's festivities still exacting their toll, and not because he was like nervous or stuff. For what was there to be nervous about? After all, he'd been working with the score editor for years and stuff. He continued and stuff...

In Logic, you can have the following:

1• rhythmic values that display longer notes than the actual duration of the played note -- but within limits. Won't be able to display 1/4's from 1/8's if your Quantize setting is set to 8ths. These are the core paradigms of Interpretation as well as the Quantize setting.

2• rhythmic values that are displayed close to or exactly as per their actual duration (Interpretation disabled, whether per-region or per-note). That's also dependent on the Quantize function. So if you have 32nds in your score, better have one of the 32nd-note Quantize values selected. Otherwise you'll see clumped 16ths. Etc.

And then there's...

7• rhythmic values that are displayed much longer than the actual sound --- possible if the envelope of the sound is responsible for creating a short-sounding duration even though a note is held longer than what's heard.

In short (no pun intended), what you want isn't possible if the actual duration of your notes is that much shorter than what you want displayed. And the Quantize function won't help you here, because setting its value to 4 (or similar) will display quarters for the entire region. And setting it to 8ths is going to ensure that short notes are displayed as 8ths, but not longer.

So here's a case where you'll have to create a "score-only" copy of the region (on a new track, assigned to a dummy instrument) that you'll use only for printout. And create a score set which includes the score-only instrument in lieu of the actual instrument playing the part in your mockup.

Mock not!

What I said to start with.

I think.

dots demo.mp3.zip

What you said before? Yup, you're probably right.

But... While there are times when the score editor's display ends up being a compromise between what you played and what you want to see notationally, here's a case where you can still do exactly what you want and not have to compromise anything. Just create a separate score-only version of your region as I described.

Mmmm-Bop

(Hanson)

-=sKi=-

Didn't I say that already?

Quelle fromage!

Now I'm confused.

But that's normal.

I get the feeling you are losing patients with me,Dr.Ski.

Perhaps a different odiuos moperandus?

Arf arf.

Have you tried our sausages?

Yes,and found them guilty!Arf arf.

Copywrong DCThompson Comivs,Dundee c 1975

Just create a separate score-only version of your region as I described.

I refer the left dishonourable rough bugger to the answer I gave some defaids ago.

Chortle,snigger,wheeze.

Hic.

Herr Moth,

If ever I stop signing off on my posts with Hanson lyrics (and such like), THEN you'll know I no longer want to have you as a patient. Meanwhile, get your ass back on the couch, open that can of beer, and tell me you score editor troubles. Now let me see, last time you were here you were describing your childhood fantasies of being the saxophone. Please continue...

Be-doopa dop(ily) Yours,

-=sKi=-

That's the problem in a seashell!

Not shore,but I think it's to do with the fact that saxophones are fragile.

Having abused my own self for decennla,I am really pissed off when a top of the range 'saxophone' can't take a mild battering once in a while.

No self abuse references allowed.

Or even silent.

That includes Shiver!

On the other hand (chirally speaking),all these wasted horns,over the years,must be telling me something.

Lessons learned are no guarantee that you'll bear them in mind when the s#!+ hits the tornado.

Bipolars are particularly bad.

Covered my spelling doubts.I think....