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Scott Jackson
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:39 am

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
If I start playback from between the RBA node at bar 3, and the first staccato note, the first note still plays as legato.


Really? It works here fine.

Also, I noticed that you do not have Notes checked in the Chase settings. You need to check that.

[Edit] Forgot to add attachment. Here it is.
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Last edited by Scott Jackson on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Scott Jackson
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:44 am

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Not sure why you thought moving the mod wheel node would make a difference?


I didn't only move the Mod Wheel event I deleted several other MW events that you have in there. For what you're doing, you should only have one MW event before each change from L to S. Your region has multiple MW events which is probably part of the problem. This is why the Event List is so useful in tracking down and fixing this kind of issue.
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Rev. Juda$ Sleaze
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:01 am

Scott Jackson wrote:
I didn't only move the Mod Wheel event I deleted several other MW events that you have in there. For what you're doing, you should only have one MW event before each change from L to S. Your region has multiple MW events which is probably part of the problem. This is why the Event List is so useful in tracking down and fixing this kind of issue.


Yeah, but as long as the correct value is there, it shouldn't matter how many events are going on, surely? It would be a big groove-killer to have to edit any mod wheel playing as soon as I've recorded it.

Note chase made no difference to the behaviour, that first staccato note is still playing legato. But, turning note chase on will make working with sustained notes a happier experience for me, thanks for that.

Still, this a minor problem, but a bit of a puzzle. Maybe someone who's still got Logic 8 can have a look sometime.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.
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Eric Cardenas
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:15 am

Scott Jackson wrote:
EricBradley wrote:
It's 2 overlapped regions.


Now why didn't I think of that?

This guy's got nothing on you Eric "Holmes" Bradley.


Elementary my dear Jackson. :lol:

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?


I see what you mean and I can confirm the same behavior that you are experiencing.
Logic seems to need a little time to chase properly. I think it's dependent of the Process Buffer Range.

Small ≈ 174 ms
Medium ≈ 187.5 ms
Large ≈ 375 ms

Try this:

  1. Move the note that is at the third measure to the second sixteenth of that measure.
    Screen Shot 2012-03-09 at 4.01.36 PM.png
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    Screen Shot 2012-03-09 at 4.01.36 PM.png (14.41 KiB) Viewed 943 times
  2. Make sure that the Process Buffer Range, PBR is set to Medium.
  3. Set the tempo to 80 BPM and play from bar 3 and it should catch. Set it to 81 and it looses the first staccato.
  4. A Small PBR will let you have a tempo of 86 BPM*. A Large PBR a tempo of 40.

* As long as you don't set your I/O buffer size below 1024
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Scott Jackson
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:19 am

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Yeah, but as long as the correct value is there, it shouldn't matter how many events are going on, surely? It would be a big groove-killer to have to edit any mod wheel playing as soon as I've recorded it.Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.


I don't know about that for sure. Remember the Mod Wheel is not an on/off switch. It's like a slider so there is a gradual change as opposed to a definite on/off switch. With MIDI Chase Logic may be confusing the information, however, this is just a theory. I suppose we could assume that the last value that Logic reads is the value that it will use but with Chase, I'm not sure. I hope David will be able to give us some insight on that.

Still, very strange that Eric was able to make your project Chase without alteration and I was able to make it Chase fine once I made my changes (I was getting your issue before I changed the events in the Event List) yet you are still having the very same issue.


Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Maybe someone who's still got Logic 8 can have a look sometime.


I still have 8 on my machine. I'll open your project in there and see if the results are any different.

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.


You're welcome.
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:30 am

EricBradley wrote:
I see what you mean and I can confirm the same behavior that you are experiencing.
Logic seems to need a little time to chase properly. I think it's dependent of the Process Buffer Range.


Ah, ok. Yes, this is exactly the same behaviour I'm experiencing.

I think you've got to the nub of the problem. Thanks :)

Well, between Eric and myself as for process buffer range, and Scott's midi channel anomaly, I'd call this solved. But it's odd that Scott is not getting the same behaviour in regard to chasing... What's your process buffer range set to Scott?
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:37 am

Scott Jackson wrote:
Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?


I think I figured out your problem.

Your legato is spilling onto your staccato.

Your first Mod Wheel event is before the ending of your first note.

Merge the regions and look at where your MW event is in relation to the length of your first note.


No it's not that.
Try setting the playhead one sixteenth note before the second staccato note and play.
It will sound legato. :|
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:39 am

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Well, between Eric and myself as for process buffer range, and Scott's midi channel anomaly, I'd call this solved. But it's odd that Scott is not getting the same behaviour in regard to chasing... What's your process buffer range set to Scott?


I just completed testing your original project file and the one I altered and I do get the same result as you and Eric if I start the playhead just after Bar 3 (after the first note on message) in both Logic 8 and 9. If I start at exactly Bar 3 it does not Chase properly on your original file but on my altered file it does Chase properly if started at Bar 3.

Buffer 256
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:44 am

Scott Jackson wrote:
Buffer 256


What about Process Buffer Range?
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:46 am

EricBradley wrote:
No it's not that.
Try setting the playhead one sixteenth note before the second staccato note and play.
It will sound legato. :|


You are sneaky today.

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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:51 am

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
Scott Jackson wrote:
Buffer 256


What about Process Buffer Range?


Sorry, Process Buffer Range is set to Medium.
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:39 am

I had a look at this and with process buffer set to medium, I was able to get the note to play properly when started at bar three but only if I reduced tempo to 47 bpm! At 48 bpm, the first note would be legato. (The dividing line was actually 47.5.) And my I/O buffer size seemed to make no difference - this worked the same at 128 as at 1024. Definitely a curiosity!

EDIT: Just tried changing Process Buffer to the small setting and I could up my tempo to 50 bpm and still have the staccato note play properly.
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:12 pm

Rev. Juda$ Sleaze wrote:
David wrote:
Scott, Rev, if one of your or even both of you want to upload a project where this does not work to this thread, I'll look at it.


:shock:

:lol:

viewtopic.php?p=425040#p425040

Oops, missed that. Ok so I tested this here and it works as expected, chasing the mod wheel data just fine. :shock:
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:40 pm

EricBradley wrote:
Scott! I downloaded yours too and it does not chase.
I nailed it down to the MIDI channel. (...)

I changed the MIDI channel to #1 and it works beautifully.

Same behavior here. That MIDI channel issue is something we had already touched on a while ago:

Logic 9.1.5 not chasing midi automation (the part where I start talking about MIDI channels is at viewtopic.php?p=391067#p391067)
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:46 pm

camillo jr wrote:
I had a look at this and with process buffer set to medium, I was able to get the note to play properly when started at bar three but only if I reduced tempo to 47 bpm! At 48 bpm, the first note would be legato. (The dividing line was actually 47.5.) And my I/O buffer size seemed to make no difference - this worked the same at 128 as at 1024. Definitely a curiosity!

EDIT: Just tried changing Process Buffer to the small setting and I could up my tempo to 50 bpm and still have the staccato note play properly.


You forgot step one... I moved the note to the second sixteenth. :wink:
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:06 pm

EricBradley wrote:
You forgot step one... I moved the note to the second sixteenth. :wink:


Not sure what you mean here..... do mean note or "node"??

Hmmmm, just tried the node moving and even though it's now after the start of the note, that works. But that seems to work no matter what my process buffer or I/O buffer settings are.
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Eric Cardenas
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:10 pm

camillo jr wrote:
Not sure what you mean here..... do mean note or "node"??

Hmmmm, just tried the node moving and even though it's now after the start of the note, that works. But that seems to work no matter what my process buffer or I/O buffer settings are.


I mean note.
http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=425172#p425172

I did that so I could measure the time needed in milliseconds without adding ticks to the equation.
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Re: Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:33 pm

Ah. Got it.
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