Jump to content

How does logic handle CPU? Cores vs clock speed?


theEmbark

Recommended Posts

Hey guys,

 

I'm getting ready to build a new hackintosh. The primary use of this machine will be logic and protools. My question is how logic handles the cpu.

 

Here's the build I've put together https://pcpartpicker.com/user/theembark/saved/RwPCmG

 

Right now I have a 5820k going into it. The question is whether I should hold back on ram and a hard drive or two and put more into the CPU getting a 8 or 12 core Xeon?

 

I realize a lot of this comes down to what I do in logic. Average project is between 60 and 80 tracks. I do a lot of midi composition but also do live recording usually recording up to 10 tracks at a time.

 

Any final advice before I start this build would be appreciated. I could very easily hold back on things like the monitor and put that money into a CPU if it's going to increase performance.

 

The other question is westmere vs haswell? Especially with ddr3 vs ddr4 not showing a huge difference.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I have come to understand, Logic reserves one core for "real-time activities." It gives that core (as we software geeks would sy it ...) affinity to those specific tasks: "this core is never given anything else to do," and "real-time-critical activities are scheduled nowhere else." (Makes sense ...)

 

All other available cores are assigned to available activities, obviously "in order of importance." If you start to make Logic "seriously work hard," you might notice that the user-interface stops being updated. That is to say, "the display becomes jerky, but the sound continues apace," because, when push comes to shove, Logic doesn't have to "keep you entertained."

 

Logic is also obviously sensitive to the need to "pre-fetch" data into RAM in advance of it being needed for playback, and seems to dedicate one or more processor threads strictly to this purpose. (But this demands that the RAM be available.)

 

As a rule of thumb, I would emphasize – first... memory – and second... fast (SSD) disk drives.

 

"Cores" would come a distant third, IMHO, because "it does no good to be driving a Ferrari if you are stuck in traffic behind a Yugo." :lol:

 

The rationale is as follows:

 

The most-likely scenario is that the computer, faced with insufficient memory, is forced to write some data out of memory (to the disk drive) in order to make room for something that urgently needs to come in ... because there wasn't available memory to allow the data to have been brought-in well ahead of time. And, in that scenario, all of your cores might be equally "stalled." Even the fastest CPU(s) cannot process data that is not there (in time).

 

So, give the system "an abundance of RAM." ("Chips are cheap ...") Then, give it a fast way to get to anything that isn't in RAM, and a fast way to move things out of the way. Because only then(!) can the cores ... however few or however many there may be ... be used at their intended capacity and purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VERY well put! You should publish that somewhere :shock:

 

Alright so that makes me more confident in my SSD purchased as well as the thought to get 32gb RAM (like you said it's dirt cheap).

 

Here's where my mind is right now. If I build/buy a machine based on a westmere chip I can access up to 128gb ram. However it will not be ddr4. I can also still run decent SSDs and most likely I will get more cores or at least have them available. If I go this route I suspect to save money too. Thoughts on this thought process? Maybe buy a refurb Mac Pro and beef it up with SSDs and ram? Or build from scratch?

 

Thanks for your input,

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, memory.. I put 64 gig in new mac pro.. So far it's handling everything fine..

 

Please keep us informed.. HACKINTOSH>>>> looks inviting, but I've been a Mac guy for a very long time.. My 2008 mac pro died, and I bought a new mac pro 6 core, 64 gig, on the recommendation of the few people who volunteered the info.. So far it's fine.. I also bought a Thunderbolt RAID, making this mac pro more than twice as expensive as any Mac/Logic set up I've ever had..

 

A lot depends on the number of tracks, and more so plug-ins you want to use.. Some companies, U-he, KVR331 use a LOT CPU power..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, memory.. I put 64 gig in new mac pro.. So far it's handling everything fine..

 

Please keep us informed.. HACKINTOSH>>>> looks inviting, but I've been a Mac guy for a very long time.. My 2008 mac pro died, and I bought a new mac pro 6 core, 64 gig, on the recommendation of the few people who volunteered the info.. So far it's fine.. I also bought a Thunderbolt RAID, making this mac pro more than twice as expensive as any Mac/Logic set up I've ever had..

 

A lot depends on the number of tracks, and more so plug-ins you want to use.. Some companies, U-he, KVR331 use a LOT CPU power..

 

Hackintosh appeals to me justs because I do enjoy building things and what not. However after doing some research it's looking like the pricing for building something similar would be about the cost of a refurb mac from 2012. The CPU's are cheap! Like $75 a piece for X5650 chips. RAM is cheap too. Mobo is going to be around $500 but probably the most expensive part of the build. I'm going to go ahead and price things out further but there may be something to be said for buying a refurb and then just adding my own SSD's and RAM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I priced things out and got myself down to 2 options. Looking for advice on which to settle on.

 

Hackintosh - going to take some work to get up and running but once I do shouldn't be a problem

Specs:

Dual Xeon X 5650 2.66 ghz 12 cores

48 gb ddr3 1600 ram

Drive 1 - 250gb SSD

Drive 2 - 1tb SSD

Drive 3 - 2tb hybrid (raid 1)

Drive 4 - 2tb hybrid (raid 1)

GeForce gtx 970 4gb ( for my design software)

Liquid cooled

$2162.94

 

Or

 

Refurb Mac

2.4 ghz 12 cores

16gb ram ddr3 1333

Drive 1 - 2tb 7200rpm

Ati Radeon hd 5770 1gb gddr5

$1899

 

W/ the ram upgrade and drives adds $750

$2649

 

These are all rough numbers but curious what others think. Is it worth $300 and a couple comprises to get something manufacture refuted? Or should I just go for it and build my own?

 

Thanks again for thoughts and opinions!

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you are capable of dealing with PC's - hackintosh.... That's good.. Should be cheaper to keep up with technology.. Apple really wants you to buy a new mac every 3 years, and basically plans tech changes to force you to do it, if you want to keep up with the 'joneses'... Can you run new Mac OSX'? or do you have to wait for someone to 'smooth them over for PC?... I find it best not to immediately jump to a new OS, or even the newest app updates, until someone has ironed out the bugs.

 

Yeah, it's great technology changes and grows,, but doing audio basically doesn't necessarily mean to keep upgrading to higher demands,, unless you want to go the higher sampling rate, more bits, etc.. It's relatively slow compared to complex video 4 K editing (wait for the 10K editing) makes it technically stable for longer periods of times.. ... Of course 3rd party plug-ins, virtual synths may become higher CPU demanding but a number of companies are not doing that realizing it some users, may not opt to upgrade their hardware just to use their newest software..

 

A lot of 'Sylenth' users, are not jumping cause they love this 32 bit virtual instrument.. although there are 32 bit wrappers. To me, the simpler I keep things, the less headaches.

 

If you're smart enough to be able to deal with any technical hoops you may have to go thru.. ok...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • 2 weeks later...

We've been using Mac clones for years with Logic. We don't typically use huge sample libraries, and so don't need to load large amounts of audio into memory for virtual instrument managers like Kontakt (though we do use some virtual instruments). One machine configuration is: 3.5GHz Core I7 (4 physical cores); 16GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM; Samsung SSD 850 Pro (128GB) for boot partition; Asus GeForce 8400 for graphics. With the case, motherboard, power supply, and an extra 7200 RPM drive - this machine cost about $1400 in parts. I've never used a Logic project so demanding that it overloaded 8 physical cores (with hyperthreading tuned on). But I've used this 4 core I7 machine (with hyperthreading) for audio mixes with 20 - 50 tracks and 1 or more plugins per track without overloading it. (BTW - plugs are usually 3rd party and not native to Logic).

 

Part of the reason for using a hackintosh is not only to save money (compared to buying Apple hardware), but also if you have PCIe card interfaces to gear. Now with Thnuderbolt, it's less common to use PCIe cards, but as far as I know it can be difficult to get Thunderbolt to work with recommended hackintosh motherboards. If I recall correctly, the issue is Thunderbolt controllers on the motherboard expect to be initialized running under WIndows. There is a hack/workaround for running under Mac O/S, but the last time I checked it does not always work. it also can be a pain to get what Logic sees as the "native" audio interface - to work on a hackintosh.

 

Also keep in mind that a reputable report came out earlier this year that Apple is revamping the desktop MacPro to be completely modular (and abandoning the current cigar design). They did not say when it would come out, except that it would not be done in time to release in 2017. Who knows how much this machine will cost, i.e., building hackintoshes might still be worthwhile to save $$$. But it could also mean that sometime in 2018 all the current desktop MacPros will be obsolete and it may be less worthwhile to build a hackintosh. So maybe apart from a speed bump from processor upgrades, it does not look like much will happen to change the current MacPro line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...