A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:30 pm

In VSL's VEP7, an AU3 plugin has been introduced which provides for up to 127 midi channels over multiple ports per VEP instance.

Find the templates on GitLab here: https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/Logic-VEP- ... -templates


Requirements

  • OSX High Sierra or above
  • LogicPro 10.4.5 or above

Adding more VEP instances and tracks

We have since figured out an easy way to create the VEP AU3 tracks on the fly. You can build up each VEP instance with 127 tracks in less than 1 minute. The above provided template was created by following the procedure outlined below. The instructions are not hard and its not too laborious, but there are some gotchas that can come up in a couple places if you're not careful that might cause some confusion. So try the easy instructions and read on in case something goes wrong.

  1. Start with a brand new project in LogicPro.

  2. You will be prompted to create a new instrument channel. If not, then select Track->New Tracks from the menu to create the first new instrument track.

  3. Select VEP AU3 plugin. Make sure to check the Multi-timbral checkbox and set the number of parts to 16. You will end up with 16 tracks created.

    newau3.jpg
    newau3.jpg (40.01 KiB) Viewed 6400 times

  4. Select the last one, which is currently assigned to midi channel 16. Look at the track properties on the left and change the midi port to 2 and the midi channel to 1.

    changeport2.jpg
    changeport2.jpg (45.04 KiB) Viewed 6400 times

  5. Now select the track above that one, which should currently have midi channel value=15. Press CTRL-RETURN on the keyboard to re-create a track for midi channel 16. (hint - using up arrow to select the track above is quick)

    portdone.jpg
    portdone.jpg (45.66 KiB) Viewed 6400 times

  6. Now select the last track again, which is currently set to port2, channel1. (hint- using down arrow is quick). Hit CTRL-RETURN 15 times. The last track created should be port2, channel16. (NOTE - this is where you can get into trouble. Its really important you do not accidentally create too many channels in this step. See troubleshooting section later).

  7. Repeat the procedure in steps # 4-6 above until you have 127 tracks. The midi channels used do not need to be consecutive on ports 1-8. They can be spread out across any of 48 midi ports supported by VePro. However you can not exceed 127 tracks per VePro instance. If you did them all consecutively, then the last one should be port8, channel15. port8, channel16 would be the 128th and will cause problems if you try to create it. (Note, this is where you can really get into trouble if you accidentally create the 16th track here, see troubleshooting below) You can always change these later to any midi channel/port you wish, as I said, but don't exceed 127 total unique channels used per VePro instance.

That's it. That sets up a max of 127 tracks on 127 midi channels feeding into a single VEP instance. If you wish to add another VEP instance for 127 more tracks, then choose Track->New Tracks menu command and repeat the above procedure to create 127 more tracks. Any of the above can be done on an ad-hoc basis. You can build up thousands of tracks in just a few minutes..

Notes

  • The VePro7 AU3 plugin is considered "Beta" by VSL. However, It has been working very well for me. There are only two noted problems you may encounter (that we know so far), which may or may not apply to you. One is that midi transport and sync does not seem to be transmitted from LogicPro to VePro when using the AU3 plugin. So if you are using a transport-oriented instrument plugin then you should consider using the normal AU version of the VePro plugin for now until either Apple or VSL fixes that, its not clear yet whom is to blame. The other problem is that in LogicPro if you try to save AU3 tracks as Library Patches, the port assignment is not saved. So when you reload those patches back into a LogicPro track, they will all be set to Port 1.

Troubleshooting

The following problems will not happen with the provided template above, except perhaps if and when you try to add more tracks to it or build one up from scratch.

Problem #1

While pressing CTRL-RETURN to create each track of a port, if you accidentally hit CTRL-RETURN again while the 16th channel is selcted, LogicPro will not create a 17th channel track, but it will actually create a new track on a totally new VEP instance, but also having channel 16. This is not that you want. In this case simply selecting the track header and pressing DEL should get rid of the problem to continue on.

Problem #2

If you accidentally CTRL-RETURN past the 127th midi channel (usually port8, channel15), then the problem is a little worse then the previous one. In this case it will not create a new VEP instance channel, it will attempt to create a 128th track on port 8, channel 16, and that will break the entire instrument setup because you're only allowed 127 midi channels per Instrument. To rectify this situation, first open the environment. Select the errantly created track header. The environment should also highlight the object that is associated with that track header. select that object in the environment and delete it. The Tracker header will probably change to a label of "NO OUTPUT". Select that track and delete it.

You will know if you have accidentally done the second mistake if you open up the environment and go to the Mixer layer. You will see many mixer channel strip objects. Some of them will be blank...and when you see a group of blank ones for a particular instrument, that is where you probably messed up.

if you see this:

before.jpg
before.jpg (87.09 KiB) Viewed 6400 times


Then you messed up while trying to create all the tracks for instrument 10. Go find the wrongly created item per the instructions above and delete it. When its fixed it should look like this:

after.jpg
after.jpg (245.48 KiB) Viewed 6400 times


If you're careful not to hit CTRL-RETURN too many times then you shouldn't have either problem mentioned.
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 16 times in total.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:29 pm

-
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:55 pm

I have a new update about AU3. As mentioned earlier, there has been a limitation of 8 midi ports. This appears to be related to the LPX environment in some way. However, we only had half the answer before, it turns out that the limiting factor is the total number of underlying environment objects that get created for each track feeding a multi-timbral instrument. LogiPro is limited to 127 of those per multi-timbral instrument. The fundamental limitation can be stated perhaps more accurately like this:

You can only have 127 channels feeding into a single AU3 multi-channel instrument, each with unique midi channel/port


But those 127 tracks do not have to be within the first 8 midi ports, they can be spread all over the full spectrum of possible midi ports. You just can't have more than 127 of them. And actually if you accidentally create a 128th track feeding a single instrument, the whole GUI will become messed up. Its possible to fix that when it happens if you read the first post of this thread troubleshooting section, but not friendly.

What does this mean? With VePro7 and AU3, that means you could use all 48 midi ports available in VePro7, using up to 768 separate instrument channels in each VePro instance. If you have some instrument tracks in LogicPro which are a single source track, but using an ArticulationSet or Scripter to channelize notes per articulationID, for example, those are only using 1 out of the 127 source channels/tracks, even while feeding many more channels through scripting into the VePro instance. You can definitely feed up to 768 total midi channels into a single VePro instance under some of those channelizing strategies.

So for example, I quickly made a template, which I will share later, that has 96 single-channel instruments and 31 multi-channel instruments that provide up to 16 channelized articulations on each one. 592 total channels in single VePro instance. This is quite a valuable thing...
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:13 pm

Multi-Channel Instrument Expansion

So here is a workflow for adding some multi-channel instruments per the above...

This involves starting with an existing template and then changing midi channel port assignments on the existing tracks without adding any new tracks. Its very important not to add any new tracks because that will likely result in going over the 127 limitation and throw LogicPro into GUI chaos. So.. follow these instructions and you can setup some much bigger templates if you using any multi-channel instruments (articulations on multiple channels).

So let's say we want to take the 1270 track template provided in the first post of this thread and expand it to include a 16-articulation multi-channel configuration for a few of the source tracks.

  1. Start with the 1270 Track AU3 template provided at the top of this thread.

  2. When you open the template you will see that it is configured for ten VEP instances, with 127 tracks per VEP instance, each track using a unique midi port/channel assignment.

    vep1.jpg
    vep1.jpg (96.78 KiB) Viewed 2343 times


  3. The best way I have found to do this is to start with the last track within a VEP instance folder, and work backwards from there. Select the last track and you will see that its currently configured to port 8, channel 15 in the inspector panel on the left.

    before.jpg
    before.jpg (201.8 KiB) Viewed 2343 times


  4. Change the port to port 48 and the channel to 1. Rename the track if you like to remind you its now on Port 48, channel 1.

    changed.jpg
    changed.jpg (201.87 KiB) Viewed 2343 times

That's actually all there is to it. Now that track will be routed to port 48. If you use an ArticulationSet and/or Scripter to re-channelize notes per articulationID, then they will all be sent to port 48 channels 1-16. Meanwhile you still have 126 regular single-channel tracks left.

If you want more multi-channel tracks, keep working back from the end like I did, select the second to the last track, then assign it to port 47, channel 1, etc... as many as you want.

Pretty easy to do and if you use multi-channel instruments such as PLAY a lot, this will greatly expand how many instruments and articulations you can fit into a single VePro instance. Up to 768 total independent instrument channels in VePro.

if you choose to use my channelizing script, then you can have channelized instruments with more than 16 articulations also, spread across multiple ports. See that here: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=143326
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:47 pm

Here is an additional different way to create a VePro template, which provides 768 midi channels and tracks per VePro instance. VSL says that LogicPro is limited to only 127 channels on 8 midi ports with AU3, but this is not correct. The limitation in LogicPro is related to environment objects. When you create multi-timbral instrument tracks, underlying environment channel strip objects are created for each of those channels, each one assigned to a port/channel. LogicPro is limited to creating up to 127 of those internal channel strips. Thus, when using the normal multi-timbral approach in LogicPro, where tracks are directly assigned to channel strips, you are limited to 127 unique midi/port tracks.

However, its possible with some simple environment cabling to have all 768 tracks feeding a single VePro instance. This is accomplished by creating 48 Channel Strip objects for each VePro Instrument, corresponding to 48 ports. Each one will be configured as midi channel ALL and the ports 1-48 respectively. Then environment multi-instrument objects are cabled directly to each one of those. The multi-instrument object will provide channelization of channels 1-16.

cabling.jpg
cabling.jpg (59.63 KiB) Viewed 1918 times
config.jpg
config.jpg (13.47 KiB) Viewed 1913 times


This method works very well if you are comfortable using old school midi tracks instead of instrument tracks to record your project, there are pros and cons, but if you want a really big template feeding a single VePro instance, this is how to do it with VePro AU3.

I have provided a template with 1536 tracks feeding two VEP instances. 768 tracks each. let me know if you have any questions about how its setup, or how to expand it if desired.


Notes and Questions

  1. Since the environment multi-instrument will channelize the notes, then any channel assignments configured in an ArticulationSet will be ignored. Use Scripter for articulation channelizing.

  2. I need to test to make sure that PDC works entirely as expected when using environment midi tracks.

  3. I'm not sure if non-midi automation lanes are more hassle this way compared to using normal instrument tracks assigned directly to the instrument channel. Perhaps.

  4. Any other weird stuff related to using old school midi tracks will apply here.

Find the template here: https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/Logic-VEP- ... -templates
Last edited by Dewdman42 on Tue May 12, 2020 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:49 pm

I will start keeping these templates at the following GitLab archive:

https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/Logic-VEP- ... -templates
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
User avatar
Dewdman42
Topic Author
Posts: 2486
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Park City, UT

Re: VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:47 pm

As we go along we are finding out what does and doesn't work with AU3 yet in LogicPro, so I just want to make the following observations to that end.

  1. Apple supposedly added official AU3 support several years ago, but insiders say the developers think it is not fully developed yet. FWIW.

  2. VSL, for similar reasons, is calling their VePro.AU3 plugin as "beta", primarily I think because Apple is saying its not fully done yet.

  3. As of today, the transport sync is not transmitted through the VePro.au3 plugin to the VePro server. so if you try to use any kind of tempo based plugin in VePro, it will not work through AU3, you will need to use AU2. Its not clear yet whether this is due to Apple or VSL, but it doesn't matter. As of today, that doesn't work.

  4. if you try to save Library Patches in LogicPro from AU3 tracks, the port assignment is not currently saved with the patch, so if you use anything other then port 1, that won't be saved with the patch at all.

Otherwise it seems to be working rather fine. As long as you avoid the above points #3 and #4.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list