To Mac Pro or not to Mac Pro?

With my Mac Pro 3.1 creaking like the doors in a haunted house, system overloads a daily irritation and unable even to run the more recent versions of Logic, here's a dilemma.

 

What to do:

 

1. Spend a reasonable amount of money on a decent spec iMac or Mac Mini but, knowing how quickly future software updates arrive and will demand increased processing power, memory, etc, it may well need replacing in five, six, seven years time.

 

2. Throw a shotload of cash at a high spec Mac Pro hoping that - while massively over-specified now, that current over-specification will mean that it won't need replacing for 10, 12 or more years?

 

We can't see into the future, of course, and the lower price *now* of (1) is more attractive. But... if I'm looking long-term, would (1) ultimately prove to be a false economy? Would (2) be likely to save money over a longer period of time if the computer has a longer useful life, meaning I don't have to buy two (or more) other model Macs over the equivalent lifetime?

 

One thing that's certain is that, whatever the model, today's high specification Mac is, at some future tomorrow, only any use as a door stop. And the nature of technical advance means those tomorrows seem to be arriving with increasing speed.

 

But how many of today's iMacs or Mac Minis will become door stops in same time frame as the likely useful life of today's new Mac Pro? On the other hand, despite its modularity, at some equally unknown point in the future of course support and components for the Mac Pro will no longer be obtainable, forcing its replacement.

 

Like I say, a dilemma!

Don't kid yourself. If you buy a new MacPro, you will soon realize that Apple's developers are determined to find ways to somehow utilize its power, be that fifteen more layers of onscreen graphic shadings, pre-emptive email sending, 1000 chrome tabs, live video document icons in 4k, realtime 3d-animation with texturing of the mouse cursor depending on ambient light and moon phase, keeping its place under the desk tidy by controlled bursts of fan-overdrive, etc. All of which will bog down your alleged supercomputer so much that in 5-6 years time, you may want the newer bigger, better one.

Thanks for making me smile. You sound like my girlfriend, who is convinced that the entire Apple corporation is populated by several thousand dedicated servants of Satan

 

There's a lot of truth in what you say. However, I do detect a potential flaw in your logic (excuse the pun). Surely Apple's developers are determined to drain the power of all Macs with such spurious applications, not just the Mac Pro? Which effectively cancels one side of your argument out against the other, leaving my dilemma intact?

Trust me when I say, I feel you. Logic Pro is literally the only thing keeping me tied to a Mac at this point too. I’m not impressed with my MBP though. Miss my old 2012 MP, but I wanted to say goodbye to FireWire... silly me.

This forum seems to favor short, paragraph size replies, conversational style, so I'll try and keep this short. If I were you, I'd buy something used. Your girlfriend may well be dead on. Even is she isn't, Apple has some real issues with servicing their new stuff. Maybe failures are rare, but apparently when they do happen, AppleCare or not, you've got a problem. Youtube is full of videos on this topic.

 

Then there is a good chance Apple will move away from Intel cpu's in the unknown near future.

 

I bought my new MacBook Pro ( 2019 ) with the full expectation that I'll be lucky to get 4 years use out of it. And, as I mention in the Black Friday thread, I just picked up a nice used Mac Air ( 2015 ) that actually does all the Logic Pro things I need. Got that for $300. Paid $4000 ( US ) for the 2019 MacBook Pro. I could have bought a nice 2015 refurbed MacBook Pro with all the old style ports I don't actually need for $1500. Didn't do that because I found some article online about the USB ports in that exact model being a problem with audio apps. One article, just one ... on the net .. so I passed on a perfectly good Mac.

 

I'm a musician, not a studio, so my needs are modest compared to some. That said, with all the uncertainty I see right now with Apple, Intel, Right to Repair ( Louis Rossmann ), AMD .... I'm definitely looking for good near term value. The long term is too vague for my nerves.

Quick add on to my post. In looking at the original post, it was about iMac / Mac mini vs Mac Pro .... not new vs used. In that case , I'd go with a mini or the iMac. Plenty good enough, way more affordable, and none of these are gonna make you happy in 10 years.

 

Hey, you ask, that's my thoughts.

 

Unless you have boat loads of cash and buying a crazy expensive machine with a very iffy future suits you. I guess this means I see the new MacPro's as something corporations would buy.

Surely Apple's developers are determined to drain the power of all Macs with such spurious applications, not just the Mac Pro

Yes. My point is that you'll get 5-6 years from an iMac or a Mini which will cost you , I dunno, 2k-3k, or you'll get the same 5-6 years from a MacPro which will set you back 6k. That's 3k-4k difference. You can do a lot with 3k-4k. Your girlfriend knows that too.

One thing that's certain is that, whatever the model, today's high specification Mac is, at some future tomorrow, only any use as a door stop.

 

That's the nature of the computing world.

The other day I had to lay down a lot of money for an i9 iMac because of video requirements.

We need it for work to replace a spec'd out cheesegrater that cannot handle it anymore.

 

So it comes down to your needs, not so much the price tag.

 

Let's face it, the new mac pro is meant for serious video work. A spec'd out Mini or iMac will do the job for Logic. Period.

Apple used to try to get customers to buy a new mac every 3 years.. For 20 years, I could afford a new mac pro every 3 years. but I got 8 years out of a 2008 mac pro.. I bought a Darth Vader Head in 2015.. It was cute, but not when you had to stuff all those cables, packed together so close, you needed a 6 year old to work it. I liked the computer, but had more than my share of problems with it, went thru 6 video cards, a logic board, and cable harnesses before it was 3 years old. It's hangin in there now. But those 6 cores can't really keep up with demands.

 

As soon as a new more powerful computer comes out. software companies add features, rewrite code far more demanding.. I feel there a lot of 'us' musicians who don'y need or can afford a decked 2019 mac pro, but need something more powerful than the mini's and iMacs. I'm just gonna hold off as long as I can..

 

If I'm gonna spend $8k, $10k, $12k. I won't be able to keep up financially.. And how stupid of me to assume you could update the Mac with anybody's card.. wow. Well still there is the good point, of using all Mac components, most of the time assures you of compatibility..

 

The price tag is important for some.. I'm retired and don't have the income I used to make, so I just can't go out and buy the latest and the greatest.

I just ordered a Mac Mini 2018 / i7, 6-core / 32GB / 2TB / 10GB Ethernet to replace my 8-Core Mac Pro. I mainly use Logic & Native Instruments plugins.

 

In my olinion, the Mac Pro 8--to-12 core was always over-powered for most Logic Pro use-cases. My research seemed to indicate that the 2018 Mini is even a little more powerful than most older Mac Pros ... including the 12-core. I know several 12-core users who went mini and seem happy.

 

I could have chosen an iMac ... but it would have cost me more ... and memory is not easily upgradable. The Mini memory is USER-upgradable up to 64GB ! Although it is not good for GRAPHICS work you can get yourself the ABSOLUTE BEST video card on the market today with the money you saved on buying a Mini. With the iMac you are STUCK with an mediocre card (mind you, still not a bad one, but overpriced)..

 

The Mac Mini seems to run reasonably cool ... and is build SO ROCK SOLID. If I bought a Macbook Pro I KNOW mine would be scratched up after a couple of years. Try to find a MBP that has no scratches lol. What I also love about the Mini is thar it is SEMI-Portable. If I need to bring it with me I CAN ! The newest iMac seems to weigh more than an ELEPHANT (I have no idea why it's so damned heavy). Forget bringing that along ... to much risk of damage.

 

Lastly, I also do graphics work. So at some point I will pick up an eGPU with the best video card available . Then my Mini will be a powerhorse for VIDEO AS WELL.

 

P.S. I will first get my Mini Jan 10. Until then all the informatiom above is simply based on research & talkimg to others. Before making a decision plesse do your own research based on your own USE-CASES.

https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks

benchmarks are interesting.

 

frankly, the 8-core doesn't offer nearly enough performance increase given the price increase over the mini. around 25% performance increase, and 400% price increase. (1800€ (with 3rd party 32GB ram) vs 6500€ lol)

 

12-core looks cool, about twice as much as the mini, however it costs 7700€, which is absolutely insane.

 

If apple doesn't update the Mini to 8 or 12-cores in 4 years, I'll hunt down a used 12-core Mac Pro maybe... But otherwise, it probably wont find its way into my studio.

 

+1 on the portability of the Mini.

I was working on a cinema sound stage last month and just popped my mini in, used their peripherals, and had 8-ch audio through HDMI DCP projector directly to dolby.

I want to notify users about getting older macs. In 2015, I brought my top of the line 2008 mac pro, in for service. Apple and another apple certified store, in NYC - REFUSED to service it. I was told it had become Apple's policy not to repair, or stock parts for a machine that old.

Yes. Apple is interested in selling new computers, not repairing old ones (and thus selling less new computers). Apple is interested in selling new iPhones, not repair old ones (and thus selling less new iPhones). This is also why getting a reasonably new computer repaired at Apple will cost you more than buying a new one. They even go so far as to lie to you about what's actually broken (or not) in your computer. Loads of stories floating around, and all pretty much congruent.

You're pretty much on your own in finding repair/replacement parts etc. elsewhere, but it does exist and it can be done. Just don't count on Apple to help you.

If you're in NYC, check out Louis Rossman.

Yes. Apple is interested in selling new computers, not repairing old ones (and thus selling less new computers). Apple is interested in selling new iPhones, not repair old ones (and thus selling less new iPhones). This is also why getting a reasonably new computer repaired at Apple will cost you more than buying a new one. They even go so far as to lie to you about what's actually broken (or not) in your computer. Loads of stories floating around, and all pretty much congruent.

You're pretty much on your own in finding repair/replacement parts etc. elsewhere, but it does exist and it can be done. Just don't count on Apple to help you.

If you're in NYC, check out Louis Rossman.

 

https://support.apple.com/en-nz/HT201624

half-truth.

they still provide support for vintage products, some of which date back to 2010. That's pretty good imo.

I checked out Louis Rossman's youtube videos.. Rather alarming. How true they are, or if he is 'out to get' apple, I cannot verify.. The whole dialog about the T2 security chip, is troublesome. Can one shut it off? I wouldn't want to encrypt my audio. Can someone else play my logic project? I've always been able to afford a new Mac Pro.. For years it was around $3K. Then in 2015, the price went up to $6K, with a Thunderbolt RAID system it was about $10K. Now in 2019. I still can't guesstimate, $15K - $20K. Can't afford that.

Firstly, 15K$ for a Mac Pro for audio is so much overkill it's beyond any reason, you should be fine witha 7k$ Mac Pro, you can get a 12-core for that money.

 

Second, it has a T2 chip, ALL macs sans iMac have T2 chips.

I'm having no issues with mine on firewire interfaces, 6 live shows on a 2018 13", and plenty of studio sessions on the Mini 2018 - no glitches. I usually record at 64 samples/buffer, and live performance 64 or 128.

I wanted to thank everyone for this discussion. This was one of the first threads I read re: getting a new Mac Pro to use with Logic. For me it started with my current audio interface acting up and looking to replace it with something "current", which then lead to me thinking it may be time to replace my 2008 Mac Pro. I had not considered a Mini until I saw the praise they were receiving on this board. One solid week of researching/budgeting/"what if?" questioning and I placed an order for a Mini last week. Similar spec to what motionwind is getting (I went with a 1TB internal and the stock 8GB memory, going to get more memory from OWC and have a local Mac repair place install it). I'm putting the money "saved" from not going with a new Pro to the Mini's memory upgrade, external drives, some new front end gear, and the item that got me down the rabbit hole in the first place - a new interface (PreSonus Quantum).

congrats!

Yes, like Ploki said, CONGRATS ! I just received my MINI today and am installing NI-Komplete-Ultimate-12 ! I decided to BITE THE BULLET to the FULLEST and left it on CATALINA . I suppose I will have some issues ... so far I have downloaded HALF of it (in about 5 hours time) ... and everything has installed ok so far (except for REACTOR5, which was provided for convenience, but is out-dated and replaced by REACTOR6). This might be an issue for some people, but I mostly used KONTAKT5 Instruments, and TO MY DELIGHT, KONTAKT5 and KONTAKT6 BOTH installed successfully I will let you know what else I run into.

fwiw i'm running catalina on my macbook pro and it's fine.

i'm updating my mini this week.

 

one thing to note:

Do your installs NOW on THIS VERSION.

in februrary, Apple will start enforcing notarization which will complicate things.

(this, not the 32bits, is the original scary catalina thing which apple postponed because they didn't want people to complain)

OK FOLKS, my FOLLOW-UP. I can NOW finally say I am satisfied with my decision (thanks for your assistance Ploki). I finally running EVERYTHING I used to run on my MacPro, and can play back MOST of my songs I tested without any changes to plugins. To get there took about 4 VERY FULL days work (including nightshifts). The DRAWBACK? I had to pay a LOT of extra bucks to update nearly ALL software to the newest versions. The entire investment (Hardware plus software), and 2 new 4k Monitors, came to about the same I would have paid for the BASE MODEL 2019 MAC PRO.

Hi there.

 

Coming from a trusty good old Mac Pro 3.1 I also went the Mini-route two months ago. This little baby gives me about 3 times the power than the old workhorse and I am really statisfied.

Hey all, just looking at this thread and happy what I see.

My MBP touchbar had a motherboard meltdown 2 days ago, and I lost a bunch of work because of the satanic soldered memory. Feeling A little burned by Apple actually.

But logic ties me to Apple.

So I think I’m going to go with a Mac mini too.

Can I ask you guys; what method have you gone for external fast storage? Have you got a hub with a bunch of ssd plugged in? Any cool recommendations that balance decent value and size? I’m going to go for the lowest amount of built in storage, and upgrade everything 3rd party. But get the highest processor.

 

Cheers

A

If you get ten years out of a Mac Pro that’s 2000$ every three years or so, and in ten years you’ll have an old Mac Pro. Or you could get a new iMac every three years or so and stay current. In 7 years, it’s possible that a new iMac will beat the current Mac Pro spec wise. So you might be better off going incremental.

 

Not saying thats the case but something to consider/research before making a decision.