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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:02 pm

triplets wrote:
The 12-core you linked, the seller puts USB 3.0 in the connectivity. Hogwash. That machine has USB 2.0
You need to get an additional PCIe card for USB 3.0, which it doesn't seem to have according to the pictures. I hope you understand that the seller is doing false claims.

That machine is definitely better than your 2012 MBP. And if you have lots of "old" port peripherals, it's the way to go.
I have a 2009 12-core myself that I hacked the crap out of, and it's a beautiful and powerful machine running Mojave and the latest Logic.
I also put an SSD on the second DVD bay for the system drive and I have 4 extra HD bays. Can't beat that.


I was avoiding anything earlier than 2010, but with that information, will consider 2009 as well. This guy says the year of this machine is 2012, and it looks super nice, except for being only 6 cores.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-3-33GHz-Hex-6-Core-High-Sierra-2TB-HDD-512GB-SSD-64GB-RAM/193366741449?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2d058e51c9:g:VbIAAOSwHuxdnNrS&enc=AQAEAAACcIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXK4PLYVaIgu9w9Os2XtDHJend94BvsGyWTB0yANk6MHa8jKUW93IJJpofUPiQwYJMe9tuR%2FeYrBxiT0uMxngiYsrqi0Wkj7vcwwIqgp8iR3wpLVw9CAHBLFJVRmEAI4nC2Iua84RAB1EIovo9ITpof9oo6oUmTdIZRGZtaRhHioZFY2UM6ZJUnFxT2okcUKO5TsvrY0tsWMNYBcPV2dcQ7PFJBZBnv3e8UQoNeiYawmUsedxqAvf3PSZQmzi7rBFmJWGGvxViTrrM6kmXKz%2FSlWUnBdPPc%2FOdDbFXR%2BHKZDUONKjMqog4S9ahZKfPxNs6CSw%2FiUtKVgLVT366denlPLzU0VVl4K2dHhH2kez7ccbvgqHM743pL77s4RXf6Xp4svMnB1vxpuD6B914EUY8HRW2lhjE%2BrDbegIVxt3aWiFye7huLGWt6Cytum86sbLuZxgVrzEjYHmFb%2B%2BT8LMUzcS9v%2BEwxVNhYpH6fNUtSuJA5n8iHlH3R0p274YkCuMcuKLMI1uAyfuaGZ4ySi%2FRK7djbSHJ%2BcGRdEo1csX0QtKFwnbz5iW1FXgWHZRK9yFTqHBvyZf1pHdrHpieVxzHHfH64x6haPsQYMlonlRCtXVRNmLX4hStuiGKmA5Be3SNyBqZy1Sg4t2eBSXT9pjWpyWQFbcOUAS3QieMyIK3MnXI1QzzZI2aFUiRAZxL%2FrmG%2FoRECAb2Ta7HurOOF0O7pSj%2Bp3zemn2oOts7DvObY%2FwNBFdwTpKd0z%2BcHwFHVD6nZT%2BZ4hBEgFL0iJTj6gPFuqg%3D%3D&checksum=1933667414496f891676d3b846bbbf21d0864ea3910c
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:12 pm

I wouldn't even think about the 6 core personally.

there are a lot of people with hot rodded 2009 machines, running Mojave...happy as can be. A lot of people that have those machines right now, already updated them...and most likely they will not try to sell it on ebay as a 2009 machine. they will try to say its a 5,1 MacPro, etc.. You can only find out for sure by checking the serial number I think. I would expect to pay less for one of those, but especially if someone else already did the hard work of updating its firmware...and upgrading its CPU also...the 3.33ghz CPU we're talking bout was not ever released that way by Apple. If a MacPro has 3.33ghz, then someone after the fact updated it themselves...and probably they have already updated the firmware if it was a 2009 machine to start out.

Anyway, They can all work fine, just make sure to verify exactly what it is...maybe save a few bucks for the 2009 version, maybe not. There is no reason to pay extra for the 2012 over a 2010 that is for sure. 2009 vs 2010 is more of a difference, but in actuality...it will be fine at 2009 also. Me personally I felt better getting the 2010 one..but I know numerous people running the hot rodded 2009's and they are very happy.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Is a 6 core just not fast enough for you? 12 is almost double the processing power?
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triplets
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:17 pm

Christopher11 wrote:
Is a 6 core just not fast enough for you? 12 is almost double the processing power?


Trust me, getting a 6-core is a waste of money, it's just 20 percent more powerful than your current laptop. The 12-core would be at least twice more powerful.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.4.8, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:19 pm

I agree. I think you'll be quite happy with the 12 core, but you won't be that happy 6 core unless you get it for $500 or something.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:28 pm

Ahhhh.... I am so glad I checked with you guys! I had no idea it was that dramatic a difference. Okay, 12 core it is, then for certain. And at least 500 GB SSD. Thank you guys. You saved me potentially being really let down. I hadn't known only 20% better than my MacBook! That's not gonna do it.
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:29 pm

which exact MacBook do you have?
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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triplets
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:31 pm

Dewdman42 wrote:
which exact MacBook do you have?


Check his signature.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.4.8, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP Logic 10.4.8, 10.14.6
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:32 pm

one sec I'll make a chart showing some comparisons.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:58 pm

Dewdman42 wrote:
one sec I'll make a chart showing some comparisons.
Thank you! You guys are the best. I appreciate it.
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:04 pm

Here's updated chart.

Left most bar is your MBP. Second bar is a 6 core MacPro at 3.33ghz. Third column is my 12 core at 3.46ghz. The rest of them are current mini's and the new expensive mac pro.

Your MBP single core performance is slightly better then the 6 core and better then my 12 core too! That is the factor related to when you are trying to play a synth plugin live with your midi keyboard..that is when that metric matters. Your full mixes use the multicore score...and as you can see the 12 core provides a lot more cpu room

Single-Core Comparison.png
Single-Core Comparison.png (13.39 KiB) Viewed 323 times
Multi-Core Comparison.png
Multi-Core Comparison.png (13.13 KiB) Viewed 323 times
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:09 pm

Fascinating. Thank you for making this!

So, as a live, performance instrument, this MacBook Pro might be useful.
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:11 pm

for sure yes. What specifically is prompting you to upgrade? Where are you running out of steam?
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:08 am

Dewdman42 wrote:
for sure yes. What specifically is prompting you to upgrade? Where are you running out of steam?


Hey brother. Thank you for asking. Well, essentially with everything. I need to clear some HD space, and have... but even so, I get the beach ball often. I get the error advising me to increase latency often, and LPX just does not perform well in a project with any kind of track count and third party plugins. I dream of a machine that will let me stack this stuff, and run various other programs and apps without flinching. I am glad you guys advised me on the 12 core matter. My searches on Ebay now are 12 core, SSD, and 64 GB or RAM. That should perk things up, I would hope.
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redgreenblue
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:28 am

If some gave me a 12 core I’d find a home for it but I can’t imagine ever spending any significant money on a 10 year old computer no matter how good. Mac Mini or iMac is what I advise. The mini is great, I love mine.

I think you are using false economy to justify purchasing such an old machine.

(I could have taken home non-12 core machines from work, wasn’t worth the effort)
Logic 10.4.4- Logic 9.1.8
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:42 am

Its all a matter of perspective and cost. If you can get a 12 core 3.33ghz or 3.46ghz MacPro for under $1500 I would take that any day over any of the current mini's. My multi-core performance exceeds that of the mini. My 12 core machine is also DEAD SILENT...no noisy fans come on at any time. I can handle multiple monitors at 4K. I can use a higher performance PCI sound card. I can add easily much memory, mine has 128gb. I can put storage devices, including SSD, inside the box rather then dangling outside a mini....etc.etc.. what is so bad about a 10 year old MacPro anyway other than the fact its ten years old? Nada. The iMac's and Mini's until now during that 10 year period have been sub-par compared to the 5,1 MacPro in terms of pro features that many of us need and want for audio work. I know some of you made them work for you and that's great, but still...the 5,1 MacPro should not be dismissed so easily. If you can get one for the right price, it is still relevant today..and worth every penny in my view..

The only exception to what I said above is that they don't have AVX, if that matters to you. And Apple has officially deprecated them, so in the future it may not be possible to keep up with OSX upgrades. So far people can run Catalina on them if they want. But I expect that situation to get worse in the future with future kext related changes coming from Apple over the next couple years.

Nonetheless, there are still a lot of compelling and practical reasons to value a 10 year old 5,1 macpro over a brand new latest and greatest MacMini...for those that consider those practical concerns important. And the performance difference is not worth troubling your mind over. In fact a 5,1 12 core with top cpu will out perform the fastest latest and greatest Mini in multi core mode! The mini does eat the 5,1 for lunch in single core performance.

Also, if you get a mini and start adding on memory, storage, etc.. it can add up quick to double the price of a 10 year old 12 core 5,1....so... again...it comes down to cost value. I think mini might make sense if you are invested in thunderbolt3 hardware already. On the other hand if you are invested in non-apple-branded hardware and particularly PCI based solutions and internal storage, etc.. a 12 core 5,1 is still a beast!
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:16 pm

That's exactly how I see it. My plan at this point, unless something changes, is to Make Offer to several Ebay sellers with 100% good feedback and get the lowest price I can on a 3.3 + 12 core machine with 64GB RAM and a SSD. Thanks to you guys and your kind advice, I think I'm pretty well informed at this point. Then I will clear out my MB Pro and use it as a live synth / performance machine. That will be fun too. I need to replace the keyboard, by the way. ASDF keys don't work.
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Dewdman42
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:35 pm

Yea my 2010 MBP is still here, I kept it around, but frankly its seeing its last legs. The track pad needs replacing...its flakey at best. It still has that annoying capacitor design flaw that would cost me a couple hundred bucks to replace...and the battery keeps complaining that it needs to be replaced, even though it appears to mostly work fine. Its not worth anything, so I'll keep it, but honestly it sits in its bag almost all the time unless I fly somewhere on a trip, and I might get an iPadPro to cover that duty too.
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 128gb ram, OSX 10.14, Logic Pro 10.4.8, Mainstage3, Cubase10, StudioOne, Reaper, DP9, VEP, VSL, too many plugins to list
 
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Christopher11
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Sat May 23, 2020 7:21 pm

Hello my friends. So I bought a Mac Pro: 2010 12 CORE Mac Pro 3.33GHz + 64GB RAM + 4TB HD + 1TB SSD + USB 3.0 #323940008048.

However, I discovered after opening it that I cannot upgrade to higher than High Sierra, I'm stuck on that and can't install Mojave, because it doesn't have a graphics card with Metal installed.

That's another nearly 300. dollars if I want to do that. My question to you guys, does this pretty much make me obsolete?

What if I want to install this new, exciting version of Logic, with Sampler, etc? Can that run on High Sierra?

It was around 1200. dollars. Should I return it? Thank you so much for any response.
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triplets
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Re: Considering 2010-2012 Mac Pro to Upgrade LPX Processing Power

Sat May 23, 2020 10:46 pm

Christopher11 wrote:
What if I want to install this new, exciting version of Logic, with Sampler, etc? Can that run on High Sierra?


You need Mojave for Logic 10.5

High Sierra goes up to 10.4.8

The interesting thing that happened when I upgraded my Mac Pro with a metal capable graphics card to update to Mojave, the CPU benchmark increased from 21000 to 24000 on multicore in Geekbench 4.
So the combination of Mojave and the Metal graphics card gave my 2009 mac pro more power!
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.4.8, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP Logic 10.4.8, 10.14.6
Contact me for Logic help (Teamviewer, Zoom, Skype)
http://www.ultimatestudiosinc.com