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nosebagger
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Adjusting Automation on Multiple Tracks

Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:11 pm

After a bit of fiddling, I have found a way to adjust volume automation on all tracks at once. I thought I'd post it here as a tip, because I previously thought it was not possible to do in Logic.

It can be a bit flaky, but by using the exact method below, it seems to work reliably ... so far.

1. Select an arrange track with automation data present.
2. Open the Automation Event List (Ctl-Cmd-E)
3. Open Automation Arrange Page (Cmd-1)
4. Select all (Cmd-A)
5. Open the Piano Roll of the Automation Arrange Page (P)
6. From the Piano Roll Functions menu, select Transform and then any of the sub-menu options, to open the Transform Window.
7. In the Transform Window, press the Presets menu button and select ** Create Initialized User Set! **
8. In the top row, set Status to "Control", Data Byte 1 to "=" and then "7".
9. In the bottom row, set Data Byte 2 to "Add" and then set whatever number you want to increment by.
10. Press "Select and Operate" and all volume automation on all tracks should have incremented by the amount set in step 9.

If it has worked correctly, the bottom right of the Transform Window will display something like" 723 events in 11 MIDI Region(s) found", if not it will say "0 events in 0 MIDI Region(s) found".

It has worked a few times for me by skipping steps 3 - 6, and selecting the regions and opening the Transform Window from the Automation Event List, but like I said, the above method seems to work every time. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Piano Roll can view the contents of multiple regions at the same time. Anyway, once you are used to it, the whole thing can be performed pretty quickly.

You could also obviously isolate other automation parameters by entering appropriate values at step 8.

Also in step 4, instead of selecting all, you could select just a small group of tracks for processing (e.g. just the strings).

Hope others can get this working too.

Tom
 
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David Nahmani
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Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:20 pm

VERY nice tip. Works great. Thanks a lot!!
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nosebagger
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:39 pm

Thanks David.

Just to add to this, I think selecting "Expon." or "Mul" in step 9 could be a better choice, as adding values will also raise the value of fades to silence (infinity).

Also, someone on the LUG pointed out that the conversion from the MIDI scale to db is logarithmic. If that is true (which I think it is?) then "Expon." would be the better choice.

Tom
 
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steveH
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:01 pm

This assumes that the volume automation is region automation, not track automation. The transform window only works on regions....right?
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David Nahmani
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:51 pm

steveH wrote:
This assumes that the volume automation is region automation, not track automation. The transform window only works on regions....right?


No, this thread is regarding track automation. It works great, try it! Track automation is contained in regions too, you just have to open an arrange window after opening the automation event list to see (and edit) them.
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EmoryJ
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:08 pm

Tom - Thanks again for this tip.
I have to re-read it closely tomorrow before I try it.
I'm particularly interested in how it relates to and works wit the effects levels I have set for these mixes. And I'm sure, as thorough as you've been - that you've dealt with it in detail.

Thanks again.
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steveH
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:43 pm

David wrote:
steveH wrote:
This assumes that the volume automation is region automation, not track automation. The transform window only works on regions....right?


No, this thread is regarding track automation. It works great, try it! Track automation is contained in regions too, you just have to open an arrange window after opening the automation event list to see (and edit) them.


Very, very cool. I never saw this in the manual! Gotta love this forum! Here's a screenshot from the manual explaining the concept of track automation stored as regions and how to bring it up. So many opportunities for cc processing when automation can be viewed and modified as regions... wow!
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Automation Arrange.jpg
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Steve H (Steve Horelick)
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Eric Cardenas
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:59 pm

Thanx nosebagger.
You get my vote for "Tip of the Week" :wink:
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EmoryJ
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:26 am

Hey Guys - So, I'm using this magic and I realize that I need to be able to "undo" the "select and operate" step where I commit the input value or multiply ratio.

Can someone please explain how this works for me?

Is is it an "operate" then "select and operate" when I have the value I want?
Or can I Command Z my way back into the attempt?

I'm so close, and I'm so happy to be four windows into a new and very useful tip.
I just need some final wisdom.

Anybody out there today?

Thanks!

EmoryJ
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EmoryJ
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:58 am

I figured it out - when in doubt - undo!

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP HERE!!!!

I now have proper output gain for my mixes without globally pushing anything -
allowing me to detail my mastering in one pass and - most importantly -

Teaching me that I can actually learn this whizbang stuff - and eventually have my engineering ability match my musical ability.

Thanks again!

Emory
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nosebagger
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Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:56 pm

I had a bit of time to fiddle with this yesterday and came up with the numbers needed to mimic the behaviour of dragging volume automation from above the line (i.e. so that each node retains the same distance in db from the next one - more or less).

To work this out, I put a node at every point on two adjacent, zoomed tracks. I then dragged the first track up by the increment I wanted to measure (always referencing a node that would end up at either +5.9 or +6.0db) and next adjusted the second track with the transform window, until each node on each track was at an identical level. (It was actually a lot quicker to do than it sounds!).

The results are as follows:

For accurate global volume changes, in step 9 of my first post, choose "Mul" at data byte 2 and, for the following volume increases, enter the following values:

12db = 2.000
10.5db = 1.8284
9db = 1.6840
7.5db = 1.5388
6db = 1.4138
4.5db = 1.2969
3db = 1.1914
1.5db = 1.0977
1db = 1.0585
0.5db = 1.0352
0.2db = 1.0195

I have saved these as Transform Sets, so it is now very quick for me to perform volume increases across multiple tracks. That said, I still think that using the Gain plug-in, the master fader, or sending tracks to a buss for global volume changes are all effective (and in some cases a better) options - but this has its place too.

These numbers can also be used to decrease the volume by selecting "Div" at data byte 2. However, unlike with volume increases, the results are not 100% accurate. If I get around to working out what the exact numbers should be for volume decreases, I will post them, but if anyone else wishes to do it, please feel free!

Tom

N.B. It is important to perform any volume increase in as few steps as possible. If you want a 6db increase, do it in one 6db step and not six 1db steps, as nodes at lower levels will not be changed at all if you use 1db steps. This is true, also, when dragging automation.
 
Daft
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Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:39 pm

nosebagger wrote:
12db = 2.000
10.5db = 1.8284
9db = 1.6840
7.5db = 1.5388
6db = 1.4138
4.5db = 1.2969
3db = 1.1914
1.5db = 1.0977
1db = 1.0585
0.5db = 1.0352
0.2db = 1.0195

Hmmm. Interesting this.

When I looked at those figures they looked very familiar: pitch ratios.

In which case the factors would be:

1dB x 1.059
2dB x 1.122
3dB x 1.189
4dB x 1.26
5dB x 1.334
6dB x 1.4142
7dB x 1.498
8dB x 1.587
9dB x 1.682
10dB x 1.7818
11dB x 1.887
12dB x 2

And to decrease multiply by the following factors:

-1dB x 0.943
-2dB x 0.8909
-3dB x 0.84
-4dB x 0.7937
-5dB x 0.749
-6dB x 0.707
-7dB x 0.667
-8dB x 0.63
-9dB x 0.595
-10dB x 0.561
-11dB x 0.530
-12dB x 0.5

I'm still trying to get my head around why 12dB is a factor of 2, but I tried a few calculations and it all seems to work, bearing in mind that the transformer is working with midi controller values with no decimals, which are then displayed as dB values to 1 decimal place!
 
Lepton
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Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:26 pm

It doesn't work with audio tracks as the transform window is only looking in midi regions. Any idea how to do the same with audio tracks?

I think I am wrong according to what David is saying here: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.p ... automation

But still... I can't get it to work. It just doesn't select what it should eventhough I am at the Automation Arrange.

----

I've got it to work. The important bit is that the automation event list window MUST be opened before pressing Command+1.

This is just stuuupid. Why the hell is it required to have a particular window open to access the MIDI informaiton encodind the Automation data? It is really not transparent not straightforward and not user friendly.
 
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Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:01 pm

Lepton wrote:
It doesn't work with audio tracks as the transform window is only looking in midi regions. Any idea how to do the same with audio tracks?

You're not working with normal MIDI regions in the Arrange window, you're working with the MIDI regions that are inside the automation folder. They contain track automation data, whether the track is audio or not - doesn't make a difference as far as automation is concerned.

Make sure you follow the exact sequence of steps described in nosebagger's original post (top of the thread) and it will work.
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nosebagger
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Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:32 pm

Daft,

Thanks for those numbers! I will give them a try when I get a chance.

When I worked out my original numbers, I first tried looking for some magic ratio, but in the end gave up and used trial and error.

That's what I love about this forum ... there's always someone smarter than yourself!

Lepton,

Like David said, follow the procedure in the first post, and it will work every time.

I don't know that I would necessarily call this "stupid", as it's obviously not an intended feature, but a back way into functionality that some users have been wanting. Perhaps in future releases, a more intuitive (and intended) way to do this will be implemented.

In the meantime, this method works well, as do ones involving the use of the Gain plug-in, or summing to a buss, or adjusting the Master fader (depending on exactly what it is you are trying to achieve).

Tom
 
JPMoore
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Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:50 pm

What's the difference in this trick and just creating a group with automation enabled?
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David Nahmani
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Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:52 am

JPMoore wrote:
What's the difference in this trick and just creating a group with automation enabled?


This tip allows you to have different automation on different tracks, and lower the automation on all those tracks at the same time. You can't do that with a group.
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colossal
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Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:19 am

Thanks nosebagger, works great.


I had to write all my un automated fader positions by setting automation to write & double clicking the fader. Then all tracks are effected by the transform.

Is there an easier way of writing fader positions to automation data?
 
nosebagger
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Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:57 am

colossal,

I don't know if this is faster, but what I do if I have tracks with no automation present is put all tracks into Touch with the key command Ctrl-Shft-Cmd-T, set a 1 bar cycle before the song starts, press play and then wiggle the fader of every non-automated track and aux that I want to include.

This doesn't relate to your question, but I'll also outline the technique that I use if I only want to perform the transform operation on specific automated tracks, as opposed to all automated tracks. To do this, assign the automated tracks you want to transform to a group and, in Group Settings, tick "Region Selection (Edit)". Now when you get to the Automation Arrange Page, select one of the regions that you want to transform and this will select all the others in the group too.

Anyway, I'm glad you're finding this technique useful.

Tom
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colossal
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Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:39 am

Nice one that helps & thanks for that extra tip.

This is the 1st time I've found the transform window useful in ages. Feels great to do some more advanced (for me anyway) stuff.

I had maxed out my faders in a mix & needed to bring everything down & tis did the job nicely.