A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

Treating a midi guitar as 6 separate instruments [SOLVED]

Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:34 pm

Is there a way (if my AXON 50 can do it) setup 6 midi instruments one for each string of my guitar. I am receiving too many phantom notes for my liking on my midi recording. I have a MacBook Pro, Logic 9, AXON 50 USB and a Roland GX-3 on a Fender Strat. I can get a pretty good recording in Garage Band but can't seem to output garage band as a midi file to Sibelius. The exported file is in aiff format.

The kind folks at Apple Care are not trained in this kind of problem.(so he says)
Thanks for any help

Tom
Last edited by tommytunes on Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
David Nahmani
Site Admin
Posts: 78956
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:16 am
Contact:

 

Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:00 pm

If your controller can separate strings into different MIDI channels, Logic can do it:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=32201
David Nahmani
• My Logic Pro X 10.4 book (Apple Pro Training Series)
Contact me for Private Lessons
Logic Pro X 10.5.1
MacBook Air 1.3 GHz i5 — MacOS X 10.15.1 — 4 GB RAM
iMac 3.2 GHz Quad Core i5 — MacOS X 10.15.4 — 8 GB RAM
 
User avatar
Mr. V
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:41 pm

 

Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:23 pm

tommytunes wrote:
Is there a way (if my AXON 50 can do it) setup 6 midi instruments one for each string of my guitar. I am receiving too many phantom notes for my liking on my midi recording.
Tom


I use the AX-100. Spending time adjusting the string sensitivity, note on, and note off values for maximum responsiveness with minimal false triggers is but half the battle.

Erik Simon over at Apple Discussions offered what has proven to be the most powerful means of filtering out low velocity false triggers: Place a Transformer object between the Input Notes keyboard and the Sequencer Input in the Environment. Set the mode to Filter Matching Events. Status = Notes, Under conditions, Velocity set to Inside. Then define the range.

I use 0 and 41 as the big brother to the AX-50 seems to have 40 as the low end of the velocity range (although this can be adjusted in the Axon editor). The filtering takes place in real time which could be very useful for live performance which I don't do, but is equally valuable when sequencing.

There are probably other ways to achieve the same results, but playing MIDI guitar has never been more satisfying as it is now, when using this filtering set up in the Environment.

The other really helpful strategy is to set up a Transform preset to remove short notes. A review of the Event list/Piano roll will reveal the note length values of the false triggers in order to set up the Length <= 70 or whatever value, with Mode set to Delete Selected Notes. This works great for clean up work after recording. Again, I use this less frequently because my input is filtered in the Environment.

I hope this helps you out.

Just for the record, I play with all strings set to a Common MIDI channel as I use my guitar for sequencing. Performance parameters (pitch, mod, etc) are added after the fact. :D
Last edited by Mr. V on Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2017 2.9 GHz MBP/1TB ssd; 2012 i7 Mini with internal SSDx2, 16 GB RAM, OS X 10.15.4, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, various MIDI guitar controllers
 
User avatar
Mr. V
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:41 pm

 

Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:26 pm

David wrote:
If your controller can separate strings into different MIDI channels, Logic can do it:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=32201


Very informative thread.

Thanks.
2017 2.9 GHz MBP/1TB ssd; 2012 i7 Mini with internal SSDx2, 16 GB RAM, OS X 10.15.4, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, various MIDI guitar controllers
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

Much thanks

Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:39 pm

Thank you both for the information. Mr V. I think it is an excellent solution and easy enough for a newbi to do. Like you say there are still the little tics and tocks that can be filtered out but gone are the jumble of misfires.

David, your answer is more that a quickie for me. I have made up two template projects that I can work these magic solutions with. Now that Mr.
V's works I'll tackle yours (much more study of the manual involved) Logic ain't Garage Band. I actually have a steep learning curve to deal with (which is good).
Tom
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:10 am

I just can't seem to get the setup right to use one guitar connected to an AXON AX 50 and have each string a separate track. I seem to be really thick on understanding the post 32201. Do I install 1 AXON controller and 6 instruments? Or something else. Please...I've read over the manual and just don't get it.
Last edited by tommytunes on Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington
Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.
 
guitarhelper
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:00 am
Location: ny
Contact:

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:53 am

Nice info on using the transformer in Logic.

I have a template on my website for six individual strings for logic.

see attached.

Brian
www.guitarhelper.net
Attachments
axon multi.logic.zip
(69.63 KiB) Downloaded 177 times
 
User avatar
Mr. V
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:41 pm

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:38 pm

tommytunes wrote:
I just can't seem to get the setup right to use one guitar connected to an AXON AX 50 and have each string a separate track. I seem to be really thick on understanding the post 32201. Do I install 1 AXON controller and 6 instruments? Or something else. Please...I've read over the manual and just don't get it.


Before trying to answer your question, are you able to record MIDI on to a single track in Logic using the AX-50?

My AXON AX 100 connects via MIDI vs USB. The AXON is connected to Port A of the MOTU Fastlane. The Clicks and Ports window in the Environment shows me it's connected. I don't have to worry about anything else. I just assign a MIDI channel to each track.

Brian's template is set up for the AX-50 which takes care of the detail work. Maybe Brian's file could be the basis for your working Templates.

I just tested out David's approach (again, I don't record a channel per string) and it worked fine. I also tested out the really cool project template offered by Brian. It worked fine.

So referencing David's approach, here's what I did:
1. Checked on Auto demix.... in Settings as David illustrates.
2. Because I don't record a channel per string, I had to open the AXON software editor to switch String Mode from Common (all strings to the same channel) to Separate. I did a quick recording onto one track with the Event List editor open. Each string recorded on a different channel.
3. I created 6 new non-multitimbral software instrument tracks, assigned each to a different channel as illustrated in Step 3. Inserted a different instrument to each one.
4. I record-enabled each track as in step 4. I click Record and play each string. When finished, I have a MIDI region on each track. I hear each separate voice plus the Event List tells me each region is on a different MIDI channel.

If you're still having trouble, try writing out step by step what you're doing so that one of us can help through get things in order.
2017 2.9 GHz MBP/1TB ssd; 2012 i7 Mini with internal SSDx2, 16 GB RAM, OS X 10.15.4, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, various MIDI guitar controllers
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:46 pm

I have had good success with recording from my AXON. I'll give it another go wuth your help in front of me. If you can duplicate Brian's post then it can be done....I am just a little new to this but patient.

Thanks
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington

Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:47 pm

I have had good success with recording from my AXON. I'll give it another go wuth your help in front of me. If you can duplicate David's post then it can be done....I am just a little new to this but patient.

Thanks
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington

Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:06 pm

Mr V. I set up the tracks in a fresh empty project. When asked for the first track assignment I chose external midi AXON 50 channel 10. I tried a quick recording and found the event list showed 6 channels 1 per string (ch 1-6). Then created 6 software instruments (non-multitimbral) all acoustic acoustic guitar. Each guitar to a seperat channel 1-6. I armed each track and plucked a string at a time and saw input on each one at a time (as to be expected) But only 1,2,3 sound in the speaker. 4,5,6 puts notes to the score but does not sound in record or play back.

When I select the AXON in the inspector, it shows port OFF, ALL, PROFIRE 610 as option. No matter what that is selected as only 3 string sound.

I've checked each instrument to be the same settings
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington

Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

Mission Accomplished 6 in 6 out works

Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:16 pm

Right after send the las reply I opened the mixer and found 4-5-6 to have different output. Changed to the stereo out like the first three and OKYDOKY it works. I do wish you a very happy holiday and a safe and happy new year.
Thanks again ..Tom
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington

Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.
 
User avatar
Mr. V
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:41 pm

 

Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:48 pm

tommytunes wrote:
Mr V. I set up the tracks in a fresh empty project. When asked for the first track assignment I chose external midi AXON 50 channel 10. I tried a quick recording and found the event list showed 6 channels 1 per string (ch 1-6). Then created 6 software instruments (non-multitimbral) all acoustic acoustic guitar. Each guitar to a seperat channel 1-6. I armed each track and plucked a string at a time and saw input on each one at a time (as to be expected) But only 1,2,3 sound in the speaker. 4,5,6 puts notes to the score but does not sound in record or play back.

When I select the AXON in the inspector, it shows port OFF, ALL, PROFIRE 610 as option. No matter what that is selected as only 3 string sound.

I've checked each instrument to be the same settings


Are you using external MIDI sound modules :?:

If you're only using Logic's software instruments and other third party instruments, choose "Software Instrument" when creating new tracks. What you're describing up above only occurs when you create "External MIDI" tracks which does indeed require you to choose an input from the Library window that opens on the far right. (You would create "External MIDI" tracks if you're using hardware sound modules.)

But,... if you're only using software instruments, then only create Software Instrument tracks :!:

Retrace my steps only using Software Instrument tracks which should result in a smoother ride. Post your results when you get a chance.

MIDI guitar and Logic are a powerful combo.
:arrow: Be patient. You'll get there.
2017 2.9 GHz MBP/1TB ssd; 2012 i7 Mini with internal SSDx2, 16 GB RAM, OS X 10.15.4, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, various MIDI guitar controllers
 
tommytunes
Topic Author
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Hudson Valley Upstate NY

 

Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:36 am

You quoted the part where I had a problem with 3 strings not sounding. I did correct that in the next post.
I did as you suggested and got what you said. In that configuration I get some mis-fires that I can't control(there are probably ways though). When I specify the AXON, I can utilize your method of installing a transformer to filter out the junk to a greater degree. Both methods get notes to appear and sound to ring out from my speakers. I am a very happy song writer. The more I learn the more, there seems, to be learned. Very cool.
"If it sounds good, it is good"...Duke Ellington

Mac Book Pro, Logic 9, AXON AX 50, Roland GK-3, Fender Squire Bullet Strat.