Recording Levels Not The Same During Playback

I am brand new to Logic and this forum. I just made the trasition from Garageband.

 

The problem I'm having is when I record a vocal, I'll watch the levels in the mixer and they hit high greens withough peaking. Then when I play that vocal track back after recording it will hit very low greens in the mixer.

 

Is there a reason this is happening? Is this normal?

 

Any advice, posisble solution, or anything at all will be appreciated.

During recording, the meters show you your recording level (before plug-ins and volume fader are processing the signal).

During playback, the meters show you your playback level (after the signal was processed by the plug-ins, and adjusted by the volume fader).

What if when I'm recording audio on the track and the plugin/preset is already selected during recording? Shouldn't the meter during recording and playback equally match since it was applied already?

No. The recorded audio is dry no matter how many plug-ins you have on that channel strip.

Shouldn't the meter during recording and playback equally match since it was applied already?

No, during recording the meters always show you the recording level, and the signal is recorded before it is being processed by any of the plug-ins.

Shouldn't the meter during recording and playback equally match since it was applied already?

No, during recording the meters always show you the recording level, and the signal is recorded before it is being processed by any of the plug-ins.

 

Appreciate the answers Eric and David. This is great new info to know. So in hindsight I am not hearing these presets I have selected on the channel strip through my headphones during recording? I'm hearind dry vocals in my headphones? Only after I have finished recording, during playback will those effects be heard? Is that safe to say?

 

With the levels hitting high greens during recording and low greens during playback... If I raise that fader is that changing the actual input and increasing the gain/levels or just the monitoring part?

No! You are hearing the plug-ins but they are not being recorded to your hard drive.

You can easily check this by bypassing your plug-ins after you record.

If I raise that fader is that changing the actual input and increasing the gain/levels or just the monitoring part?

The volume fader on the channel strip only affects the monitoring and the playback level.

 

The only way to adjust your recording level is using the Gain knob on the preamp where you've connected your sound source. Once the Analog-to-Digital converted (a component of your audio interface) has converted the analog signal into zeroes and ones, Logic simply saves those zeroes and ones, UNCHANGED, in an audio file. Logic does not have any control over the recording level.

Thank's guys! I'm going to try some recording tonight and expiriment with gain and the mixer. One last question. Do I NEED the levels during playback to be at a certain level in the mixer meter? Or if it sounds good/right are those lower levels being displayed in the meter alright? Must they be high during playback to demonstarte a good recording is the simple question?

If it sounds right it is right

Must they be high during playback to demonstarte a good recording is the simple question?

 

No. The level you see in the meters during playback levels show you the playback level. If I use a plug-in which applies a gain of -30 dB, then my volume fader on the channel strip is set to -20 dB, then the playback level will be 50 dB below the recording level. So even very low playback levels don't mean the recording wasn't "good".

 

I'm going to try some recording tonight and expiriment with gain and the mixer

That's the best way to truly understand what's going on.

 

When you experiment, try this:

 

1) Have a mic connected and its track record-enabled.

2) As you sing a "Hmmmmm" sound at a constant volume and constant distance from the mic, tweak the gain knob on the mic preamp (don't be afraid, turn it all the way down, then all the way up, you cannot break anything) => in Logic, the meter updates to show you the difference in the recording level.

3) Settle on a gain position where your vocals peak at around -10 dBFS.

4) In Logic, tweak the volume fader (all the way down, then all the way up) => in Logic, the meter does not update, because there is no difference in the recording level.

When you experiment, try this:

 

1) Have a mic connected and its track record-enabled.

2) As you sing a "Hmmmmm" sound at a constant volume and constant distance from the mic, tweak the gain knob on the mic preamp (don't be afraid, turn it all the way down, then all the way up, you cannot break anything) => in Logic, the meter updates to show you the difference in the recording level.

3) Settle on a gain position where your vocals peak at around -10 dBFS.

4) In Logic, tweak the volume fader (all the way down, then all the way up) => in Logic, the meter does not update, because there is no difference in the recording level.

Very interesting. I'm a shame to say I have not been working this way and the recordings sound good. Thanks for the breakdown, very helpful. So then, adjusting a plugin, say Omnisphere, you should be controlling your record level from the plug interface?? I haven't, but this make sense now.. After all these years, you still learn something new, even if it's the basics.. go figure.

 

Basically, we are using the track fader for "listening level" going in and coming out for the mix level. Yes?

So then, adjusting a plugin, say Omnisphere, you should be controlling your record level from the plug interface?

It doesn't matter with software instruments: the audio is generated inside Logic, so you can't clip unless you're clipping the output. We are discussing Audio recording only here.

Got it, thanks.

So I did the experiment with the gain on my m box and the fader in logic and it's not starting to make a bit more sense. So in Logic while watching the meter and trying to set leves to as close to peaking to -10 dBFS how do I know where -10dBFS is? Since on the fader there is no negative numbers? Or would that be somewhere between the 9 and the 12? I know very amateur question. :/

Must they be high during playback to demonstarte a good recording is the simple question?

 

No. The level you see in the meters during playback levels show you the playback level. If I use a plug-in which applies a gain of -30 dB, then my volume fader on the channel strip is set to -20 dB, then the playback level will be 50 dB below the recording level. So even very low playback levels don't mean the recording wasn't "good".

 

I'm going to try some recording tonight and expiriment with gain and the mixer

That's the best way to truly understand what's going on.

 

When you experiment, try this:

 

1) Have a mic connected and its track record-enabled.

2) As you sing a "Hmmmmm" sound at a constant volume and constant distance from the mic, tweak the gain knob on the mic preamp (don't be afraid, turn it all the way down, then all the way up, you cannot break anything) => in Logic, the meter updates to show you the difference in the recording level.

3) Settle on a gain position where your vocals peak at around -10 dBFS.

4) In Logic, tweak the volume fader (all the way down, then all the way up) => in Logic, the meter does not update, because there is no difference in the recording level.

 

 

Ugh so now I'm discovering even though the levels are still playing back in low greens and sound loud enough the "output" track is hitting reds and peaking!! The frustration starts all over again. WHY is there an output track! And A Master track!? Aren't they the same. Why is the output track peaking? levels show much higher in the output meter than the vocal meter track i just recorded on.

The output track is peaking because it is the sum of all the tracks, and all of them summed together are going over 0 dBFS. Turn down the output fader and it won't be peaking. Of course your monitoring will sound softer, so turn up your headphone amp to compensate.

That Worked! No Peaking! So David, What's the diff between the output and the master?

I agree with you that you shouldn't even have a master when mixing in stereo. The master is a remote control for all output channel strips, so it's only useful when using more than one stereo output. I always leave my master fader set to 0, never touch it. You can even click the "Master" button at the top right of the Mixer to hide the master channel strip.

I always leave my master fader set to 0, never touch it. You can even click the "Master" button at the top right of the Mixer to hide the master channel strip.

Just beware that the Master Volume slider in the Control Bar, master track, and master channel strip are connected, so that changes to one affect the other two as well. So, if you have the Master Volume slider in the Control Bar set to -12 dB, the master channel strip fader is also at -12 dB AND your Bounce will be down by -12 dB.

WHY is there an output track! And A Master track!?

 

Forget about the Master track for now and only use the Output instead.

The master track acts as a Master for ALL your outputs and can be handy in a Surround sound environment.

Got it. Thanks Guys!

You're most welcome!

Alright so this issue may still be an issue I thought I had resolved. So like I said originally I'll record and the levels will be fine, and during playback they will be low in the fader as we discussed and that's fine. But I notice that the green numbers next to the fader are very high like -53 or -21 or somewhere in those area's. Shouldn't that be around -10? Because isn't that the actual output level? I have my fader level set at zero. Sorry if this is confusing I don't know all the correct terminology. I am talking about the green numbering next to the master fader numbering.

very high like -53 or -21 or somewhere in those area's.

Actually that's very low. -53 dB FS is a lower level than -21 dB FS, and both are rather low levels compared to the maximum possible level of 0 dB FS.

 

Shouldn't that be around -10?

Well there's no should really, if it sounds good, it's good. If you want an instrument to sound lower in the mix then it may need to be mixed lower than -10 dB FS.

 

Because isn't that the actual output level?

It's the level going out of that channel strip. The output level is displayed on the output channel strip.

 

Sorry if this is confusing I don't know all the correct terminology. I am talking about the green numbering next to the master fader numbering.

It's a peak level display:

 

http://help.apple.com/logicpro/mac/10/en.lproj/Art/S0410_mixClippingUL3.png

So my peak levels after recording during playback are super low. Not as low as they are while recording.... This is normal? It just seems un-normal compared to how it looks when others I know use this DAW.

Keep in mind that if you have any plug-ins on the channel strip, they will affect the playback volume.

 

If you have an EQ on the channel strip, and you're cutting (lowering) 6 dB of a frequency here and 4 dB of a frequency there and 3 dB of a frequency somewhere, the net result will be a lowering of the volume.

 

Likewise, if you have a compressor on the channel strip and you're hitting it hard (getting a lot of gain reduction), it will also result in a lower volume (if you're not adding some Make-up Gain on the compressor).

 

Also the position of the fader affects the volume.

 

Try bypassing all plug-ins, put the fader at 0.0 dB and see what you've got.

Try Redlogic's suggestion... bypass all plugins on the channel strip and set the channel fader to 0 dB. Then go down the channel strip, starting at the top, and turn on each plugin one at a time. Watch the meters to see how each plugin affects the channel level. Work thru all the plugins - one at a time - until you find the problem(s). Then adjust the output of the offending plugin(s). This should fix the problem.

 

In general, you should try to adjust the output level of each plugin to match its input level. Of course there are times when you may intend for a plugin to create a level difference, but if you vary from this general rule, it should be intentional and not accidental.

Alright, let me give this a shot.

I see different levels depending on if i have the track armed or not. After setting a good healthy level and recording if i leave the track armed i'll see a much lower level playing back what i just recorded. Then when i un-arm the track i get the same level i set. Could that be what you're describing?