Logic vs. Nuendo

[Dante310]

I'm not here to start a which DAW is better debate with this question, that is obviously a subjective thing. I have however been seriously contemplating a switch to Nuendo and after trying it out (on a limited basis) I have come away impressed with it.

 

I'm just wondering if anyone here either used to use nuendo and switched to logic or has to use nuendo for frequent work in addition to logic, and if so, are there any big features or capabilities that I'll be leaving behind if I leave logic? Is there anything that stands out to you when using Nuendo where you say wow I wish I had logic to do that?

 

Thanks for the help everyone.

[musick]

I come from SX (very similar to Nuendo) to Logic. I don't think SX/Nuendo has features Logic does not have, It's the other way around. Logic is way more powerfull as SX/Nuendo but is also much more complex (e.g. somthing like multiple automation versions in the same session as described in the tips&tricks section here). One plus for Nuendo probably is that is does not have the 'automation edit' bugs Logic has and that it's very stable....

[nickweston]

I own both, and one of my mixing engineers uses Nuendo exclusively.

 

There are some SUPER cool features in Nuendo that I would kill for in Logic,

 

like the fact that you can select a region and adjust it's volume...

 

the zoom feature is very cool

 

pretty extensive MIDI stuff, but Logic has the edge here

 

but through all of this I return happily to Logic. It just fits my brain better.

 

I would also add that the fact that Apple makes it is a plus, as that company is going nowhere. I remember when I first used Nuendo, it really sucked on a Mac, and the rep gave me a speech about how Macs were too slow for digital audio!

My buddy works with Nuendo on a PC, and it's a pain in the butt when it comes to transferring files, etc. what with Windoze rules on file names, etc, drives not mounting...

 

bottom line: both are really strong, but something about the layout in Nuendo just doesn't register for me.

[musick]

like the fact that you can select a region and adjust it's volume...

Yes, forgot that one. Was the first thing I missed when I started with Logic

[Tarekith]

Another previous long time SX user here. My thoughts (repaste from a similar thread a few weeks ago):

 

- SX has far more intuitive audio editing, no question. Logic's no slouch here, it just requires you to open the sample editor to do many of the same things you can do right in SX's arrange view. Nothing in Logic's arrange view is sample accurate. This is #1 on my wishlist for Logic 8.

 

- In terms of midi, I think they are both equal. SX has midi plug ins, but I never used them. Logic has the Transform editor, which is more or less like SX's logical editor.

 

- Logic's plug ins are better, no doubt about it. I'd pay $300 for Ultrabeat alone, so it was worth it for me just for that. Sculpture is amazing too.

 

- In general I'd say SX is laid out in a more logical fashion (ironically), but the flipside of that is that Logic is MUCH more configurable.

 

- I really miss the right click context sensitive menu's from SX, that was a very fast way of working. Logic has the same idea, it's just under a menu in each editor window, which means more mousing around. The workaround of course is ...

 

- ....key commands. Logic has LOTS more options when it comes to key commands, and I thought SX had a lot The downside, is that very few basic tasks are already assigned to key commands right out of the box. In SX, it was a matter a learning the defaults, and then changing or adding any that you didn't like. In Logic, it's almost like you get a blank template, and you need to determine them all yourself. Very customizeable, but for a beginner it's added work trying to figure out just which key commands you'll end up needing, and trying to organize them in a logical, easy to remember way. It also means that pretty much every single Logic set up you'll visit will have entirely different key commands, which could be frustrating.

 

 

I think if Steiny had ported SX3 to Intel MAc's, I'd have probably stuck with that, if only because it worked great for me and I never had any issues. Logic is the only Apple application I've used that was not incredibly easy to use without looking at the manual. There's so many interface quirks you don't see in their other apps. It definitely doesn't feel or act like something you'd expect from Apple IMVHO.

 

 

Hope this helps!

[camillo jr]

There are some SUPER cool features in Nuendo that I would kill for in Logic, like the fact that you can select a region and adjust it's volume...

 

That would be cool indeed. In Logic, if you want a volume control independant from the main volume use a Gain plug inserted first on the channel strip. Or you could make the main volume all hyper draw and then you do have per-region volume control. After that you could use the gain plug for the main volume instead, since RBA volume automation wil fight with the TBA version.

[PBenz]

I know you want to know about Nuendo - I hope you don't mind I can only comment on Cubase 4. Supposedly it's the exact same audio engine so this should all apply to both products...

 

I sometimes miss the simplicity of clicking Mute or Solo in the Cubase 4 project window which will mute/solo the corresponding channel in the mixer. I get why this is different in Logic, though, and this relatively minor - I just miss it sometimes.

 

I miss the fact that Cubase plug-in delay compensation works a bit better than in Logic. Put a high latency plug-in on a buss in Logic and you'll see what I mean - the user interface, including the channel meters and the SPL position, are ahead of the audio. Irritating.

 

The other day I was running into the dreaded CoreAudio System Overload message in Logic, so I reproduced the exact same mix in Cubase to see if it handled it any better. It did not! In fact, it was much less graceful about it. The output meter would peak, stopping playback instantly, and a loud click would emanate through my monitors. I had headphones on at one point when this happened and I almost jumped out of my seat. Needless to say, I DON'T miss that!

 

Logic's signal routing architecture is much more flexible than Cubase's. I don't know if this is different in Nuendo, but sidechaining is not directly supported in Cubase, and won't be until possibly the next release. (You CAN work around this, mind you, but it's still much easier in Logic)

 

Lastly, I realize this is entirely subjective, but I find Cubase to be a tad more "tinny" souding than Logic. Describing this the other way, I find Logic to be a bit "warmer".

 

It's a tough call - there are things I dislike in both products, but I'm going to stick with Logic for now. It's pretty tough to master but I think it's worth it.

[nickweston]

I noticed the comment that Nuendo/Cuebase sounded "tinny." I noticed the same issue while I worked with it but attributed it to other variables.

 

So maybe my original reaction was correct (how could I not trust these aweseome ears, eh?).

[Tarekith]

I did A/B mixdown comparisons in Logic and SX3, and didn't notice any difference in the resulting files. Flipped the phase on audio file and they both perfectly cancelled. Ditto on Ableton Live, all three apps were identical interms of audio/mix engine.

 

I miss SX's mute and solo functions too BTW, I still don't understand why it can't mute or solo instantly in the arrange tracks in Logic....

[nickweston]

Tarekith-

 

you nailed it, putting the two mixes out of phase was brilliant and imperical evidence...

[Eric Wikman]

This is a huge issue for me... being a Cubase user for 15 years or so. (Atari 1040 ST).

I have used Logic Pro for about 7 months now, and I love it.

But I have a running list of things I like/prefer better in each platform.

Each list has about 30 things different from the other.

I will edit the list some more and post it here in a few days.

I am traveling for the next few days.

 

To get to some quick ones....

1. Logic does sound better to me slightly. Fuller?

 

2. Logic's plugins are enough new sounds to keep me creative for a year or more. No comparison here. Every plug blows Cubases outta the water. Even the tape delay.

 

3. Apple Loop browser! Great! I've made all my past sessions into custom loops, and having new sessions all the time.

 

Cubase =

1. volume handles ( try adjusting hundreds of regions on 30 background tracks in Logic compared to Cubase. No comparison! I made a quick tute video of this in action and posted it in another post a while back.

 

2. PDC in Cubase is totally transparent. Logic is preventing me from using Aux for most of my productions still due to not knowing how & when exactly it will become a problem. Sometimes it is delayed and sometimes it's not. ???

 

3. Cubase handles track/voice management totally transparent and effortless. Logic's is a mix between this and Protools it seems. Drives me crazy.

 

4. Cubase bounces back into the arrange window/song if checked. This is for rewired Reason tracks or anything. Again.. effortless.

5. Keep last complete pass in cycle record (without tons of created tracks and unmuting).. audio & midi. So simple to add this feature. This also drives me crazy about Logic.

Steiny has announced that they will NOT put out a UB version of SX3 as promised! I dont want cubase4 for now, and I am about to update my Mac to an intel. So that means I can never open & work my old songs (years worth). once I get the new Mac.. w/o using Rosetta!

[tovinho]

Hi Guys!

 

Nuendo or LP?

 

I think there are two very important points you're grabing no attention to.

 

1. In the musical side, you have to purchase a Nuendo, and a ton of software instruments (sampler, organ, eletric piano, a very good synth, a vocoder, a stunning drum machine box, and the list goes on and on), so you can do what you do with a single LP. The midi capabilities are almost the same but LP is far more stable and still (even withouth an update for at least one year) has more functions than Nuendo.

 

2. The other point is very subjective, but very very important. SOUND. Record some drums, or an acustic guitar or piano (real instruments) using Pro Tools (this choice was only to record in another daw other than LP or Nuendo), and export your tracks (with no effects) to use them in LP and Nuendo. Now, mix your audio tracks for A/B comparison. If you need, use third part plug ins (waves for example) to be sure the native plugins will affect the final result. At the end of your material, put a very lon reverb (6sec for example). Now bounce your material and listen using Pto Tools (again using another daw). The LP file is too much clear and please pay attention to the end of your long reverb (at the end of your song). In the LP file the reverb falls smoothly and in the Nuendo file you'll hear a very strange decay at the end.

 

Well, I'm a musican. not a technician. If I could do my job just with audio files I'd go to Pro Tools. But i think nothing can do the midi+audio+instruments integration like Logic Pro does. yes, we need updates and so on, but there's nothing you can do with a Nuendo that you can't do with LP.

 

Hope it helps

[jjigga3000]

There are some SUPER cool features in Nuendo that I would kill for in Logic, like the fact that you can select a region and adjust it's volume...

 

That would be cool indeed. In Logic, if you want a volume control independant from the main volume use a Gain plug inserted first on the channel strip. Or you could make the main volume all hyper draw and then you do have per-region volume control. After that you could use the gain plug for the main volume instead, since RBA volume automation wil fight with the TBA version.

you can adjust on region independent of another, You just use Hyper edit. The thing with switching applications is, what's most important to how you work. Decide that and make your decision. I used Pro Tools Mix + and made the switch to Logic right around 4.x. When I made the complete switch a lot my industry friends thought I was crazy for making the switch, but I saw the future of Logic so it was easy. Infact when I made the switch to Logic, not many producers were hip to Pro Tools, mainly cause it was so expensive.

 

Anyway it's all about which workflow is easier for you, cause truth of the matter is, besides the Midi in Logic, They pretty much all do the same thing with the exception of killer features that each of the apps posses. Like DP5, has a melodyne type editor built in to each track, ProTools has beat detective, I'm not too familiar with Nuendo, but I think you get my point. Use what works for you.

[Dante310]

i really appreciate all of the advice guys. i think i will stick with logic after all. one of the features (soundframe) i had really been intrigued by in cubase 4 and nuendo 4, when its out, apparently has been a total mess and doesn't even work in cubase 4, so much for that.

 

i'm hoping native instruments can get kore 2 stable as i've heard really bad things about the first. i don't know if anyone can relate to this but as an exclusively midi/vst producer, the number of presets i have is mind boggling and not in a good way. i have no way of sorting or tagging anything as logic stands now and i really, really hope we see multi track instrument presets in the next version of logic, or at least something where i can sort and tag all of my instruments. anyway thanks again for the help-

[wip]

i gots to throw my 2 cents in:

i actually studyed Nuendo + Halion and some Wavelab a sound-production school for 1 year and switched to Logic last summer.

since many of my producer-friends still are using Nuendo and Cubase i constantly get back behind their PC's and start tweaking and there's one major thing i've realized - i can't live without the 4 quick-assigned tools in Logic!! Command = Pen, Velocity or MarqueeTool, Default = Arrow-tool, Right-click on my mouse = ScissorsTool + Ctrl (+ Option) = Magnifying Glass.

pure genius! it increases my workflow so much that i'm not even going to get into my pros and cons regarding Nuendo.

 

k

[musick]

I still don't understand why it can't mute or solo instantly in the arrange tracks in Logic....

Because you can have more tracks going to the same object. Muting/soloing one of those is different from muting the object!

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=5297

[Tarekith]

I understand what muting/soloing the arrange does, I just don't understand why it takes so long to actually do it.

[musick]

Ok, now I understand what you mean. I think it has to do with Logic working ahead of the current time postition, so it takes this time for solo/mute to get audible. Agree it's a 'bug'

[PBenz]

I did A/B mixdown comparisons in Logic and SX3, and didn't notice any difference in the resulting files. Flipped the phase on audio file and they both perfectly cancelled. Ditto on Ableton Live, all three apps were identical interms of audio/mix engine.

 

Interesting idea, but I still hear a noticeable difference. I've uploaded my test files so you can hear for yourself here. You'll find 4 6mb AIF files. I created separate files for the overheads since those were the only tracks I panned hard left & right.

 

I have to say, going back and listening to these files today, I might use different adjectives to describe the differences. The crashes, for example, sound harsher to me in the Cubase file. In spite of this, I have to admit that I might have chosen Cubase on a different day. I don't know - I'm still torn between these two products, and a great sounding mix could be done on both.

[blueintheface]

I prefer Cubase's audio editing, in-line processing, region handling, edit lanes. . . .

 

Crucially, however Logic has proven much more stable - really, significantly so - and also Logic works far better at low latencies. You basically can't use Cubase below 128 samples with any plugs with any reliability. This is less significant for recording audio, but vital for live playing soft-synth's.

 

Also, Steinberg's pointless political refusal to support Apple technologies - AppleLoops, AU's, AudioMIDI Setup - is annoying. So much for 'cross-platform' SX4 isn't really even cross-platform between Intel Mac and PPCMac's - missing plugs and no dither on Intel. . . . inthe last 6 months Steinberg's share of the Mac market has dwindled, and you'd be hard pushed to say they didn't bring it on themselves. . . .

[oddball]

I used Cubase for ten years and switched to Logic about a year ago.

The last version I was using was Cubase Score 5.1

When it was time to upgrade to SX I decided to switch to LP7 because of the writing on the wall regarding Apple ownership etc.

 

Yes the Plug-ins in LP7 are great and the flexibility is useful and maybe old habits die hard but but I so miss Cubase.

 

Some of the things that drive me mad in LP7....

 

1. Mute and solo take too long to engage, it was instantaneous in Cub.

 

2. When editing midi in the matrix, the midi thru is not automatically routed to the channel you are editing. In Cub you could jump around regions and edit without ever having to switch the selection in the track list.

 

3. When in the matrix if you punch in to record the notes you were looking at disappear so you can‘ use the display as a visual cue.

 

4. When dropping in on audio recording you have to arm the track and then disarm it if you want to here it back at the right level.

 

5. As I‘m writing this I‘m thinking of more things and i‘m beginning to get cross.

 

Bottom Line..... When in the heat of musical inspiration when ideas are coming

thick and fast the most important thing is how fast you can get your work done.

Cubase wins hands down. It‘s like a pencil that stays sharp when you are scribbling on your manuscript where as LP is like one that you have to keep pausing to sharpen.

 

Bottom Bottom Line..... The end result that I‘m getting in LP is superior in sound and it is a very powerful program. I just wish they could think like a musician and not like a techie.

 

I feel better now and if anyone knows of some preference settings that would cure some of the above evils I thank you in advance.

[el-bo]

"1. Mute and solo take too long to engage, it was instantaneous in Cub"

 

 

 

 

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4170/sfga8.png

 

 

here you have the option to change track solo/mute behaviour

 

 

 

 

[jaypinto]

I've been using Nuendo on a PC since 2001 - just started using Logic in Nov 2007. I'm blown away by Logic - the plugs are better and, to my ear, the overall sound is fuller. But for me the biggest plus is to be working on a Mac again.

[oddball]

Thanks El-Bo but my version of Logic ( 7.2.3 ) doesn't have that preference. Are you running 8 ?

[FlowerPower]

like the fact that you can select a region and adjust it's volume...

Yes, forgot that one. Was the first thing I missed when I started with Logic

 

You can do this in Logic as well.

 

You just have to press a key first (the key command for "Create 4 nodes at region borders")...

[el-bo]

yes i am runnng 8, but i could have sworn you could do this in 7 also.....

 

oh well...sorry to get your hopes up

[oddball]

Thanks anyway.

Is it worth going to 8 ?

I am worried that my BFD 1 and 2 which isn't working all that well will screw up even more plus I am about to get Melodyne. Have you used any of those on 8.

All I want is a stable system so I can get my work done.

[el-bo]

personally, i think logic 8 is great, but i have no experience with the plug-ins you mention.....i have heard, however, that bfd 2 aint quite there yet

 

for me, stability is a big improvement.....and generally the whole user interface is fantastic...great boost to workflow

[PMcC]

another Long time Nuendo user who in the absence of Mac Intel support looked elsewhere. I still have both.

 

After using Logic, and now Nuendo 4,. they are both great apps but it just feels that Nuendo is so un-optimized for Macs compared to L8. the performance meter in Nuendo spikes, and I am unable to even get buffers under 258, when L8 can run the same project @ 64 comfortably.

 

They are both great apps my feeling is, if I were an engineer/editor maybe I'd use Nuendo, still not sure.

But, I'm not. I'm a writer, I think L8 offers more creative tools.

 

PMcC

[tatem]

I noticed the comment that Nuendo/Cuebase sounded "tinny." I noticed the same issue while I worked with it but attributed it to other variables.

 

So maybe my original reaction was correct (how could I not trust these aweseome ears, eh?).

Thats funny ive gotten into many a debate with Nuendo users who claim that due to the engine the sound quality is superior. UMMM Yeah.