Jump to content

Logic Pro X and the end of the road…?


siderealxxx

Recommended Posts

Hi, I don't post here much because I generally don't need much help, but I wanted to write because I really feel that I've reached a cross roads with Logic Pro X… this is a big deal for me because I've been using it for 20 years and I work with it every day professionally.

 

Firstly I want to say that on the whole LPX is still a great piece of software and mostly meets my needs. Whilst I have some ongoing frustrations with some features and bugs etc, I can live with most of it as long as I can still do what I need. But to be honest there's one thing that has ruined my expereince and enjoyment of LPX completely and (I'm sorry to say again) that's the GUI colour scheme. I've reached a point now where I've had enough and need to take action.

 

This isn't just a moan because I don't 'like' the way it looks. It's actually playing havoc with my eyesight which is making navigating around Logic (which used to feel transparent) much harder. Naturally this has completely affected my enjoyment of working with the software and I actually feel I've been less productive as a result. I've actually taken to inverting the colours in OSX to compensate - hardly ideal, but still preferable.

 

I believe with 10.1 the developers had an opportunity to demonstrate to us that they would compromise and offer alternative user schemes (at the very least a 'Classic' theme). It appears they're not going down that road for now (if ever) so those of us who have issues with the GUI are left to either live with it or find inadequate alternatives (3rd party colour hacks, inverting OSX colours, reverting to LP9).

 

I actually had a fairly lengthy conversation with one of the lead developers in the Logic team back when LPX came out, but the messgae then was basically reluctance to accept a major problem and that they'd put too much work into it to change things now. I personally believe this is the biggest problem Logic has ever seen and it hasn't gone away and will be looked back on very much as the dark days…

 

So the question is, what choice do I have? One option is to consider migrating platforms for now and I'm considering Ableton Live as the natural successor. This is a pain in itself as I know Logic so well and I'd have to divert a lot of time to re-learning software. But another part of me wants to pull people together and officially petition the developer team to addressing this once and for all (not sure on the forum rules on this?).

 

I know I'm opening a can of worms here and opinions are all over the place on this, but I'd genuinely be curious about peoples experience now that we've lived with it for a while. Is there some further action to be taken? Should I give up on Logic once and for all? Am I losing the plot…?!

 

Best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you hate it that much, switch. Live is great and I love it, but it's not imo a real "proper" DAW like Logic - I'd take a look at Cubase or DP maybe.

 

I don't have a problem with LPX, but then a lot of pro creative software already has dark interfaces (most of the visual/design/3d/video/motiongraphics etc) for good reasons. I love the FCPX interface too. Going back to Logic 9 just feels and looks horrible to me these days.

 

Petitioning Apple isn't going to help - by all means, leave feedback - I'm sure they've had a *ton* of feedback on this - but just as LP7-9 followed the "old" Apple pro app look, LPX follows the new pro dark interface that FCPX and other apps use - it's a system wide thing now, so a few gripes from a tiny portion of the userbase aren't going to change it. I think if the gripes had been loud enough, they would have probably done something about it, but the gripes were in the main by a vocal few, and the rest of us just adapted.

 

I'd *far* rather stick with Logic and adapt than going to the dark side of Cubase etc (*shudder*) but seriously, if it's not working for you, and you don't love Logic enough to stick with it at all costs, then by all means go an investigate the alternatives, and hopefully get back to being creative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think if the gripes had been loud enough, they would have probably done something about it, but the gripes were in the main by a vocal few, and the rest of us just adapted.

 

I'd imagine the feedback on this was very high - about as high as possible for an app like Logic - and I think it was more than just the 'vocal few' but as you say, when Apple decide something at company level, they tend to adhere to it regardless of feedback (unless it's really severe). I don't see the problem with simply offering a 'classic mode' alternative that's all.

 

I'd *far* rather stick with Logic and adapt than going to the dark side of Cubase etc (*shudder*) but seriously, if it's not working for you, and you don't love Logic enough to stick with it at all costs, then by all means go an investigate the alternatives, and hopefully get back to being creative.

 

I really do want to stick with Logic at all costs, but I literally can't! My eyes just can't take it for long periods and it's slowing my productivity down. That makes it very difficult for me because I'm not left with much choice.

 

The truth is we don't really know how people are using logic, i.e. who likes the colour scheme, who doesn't, who has 3rd party mods, who's just living with it etc. I suspect I'm not alone, but maybe I am in the minority in that I've never learnt to live with it and I've basically reached a point of no return...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see the problem with simply offering a 'classic mode' alternative that's all.

 

It's a lot more work to develop an alternate skin and hundreds of graphic assets, and to continue to create multiple versions when new features require new graphics.

 

If the new GUI had been designed with user customisation in mind - for example, Photoshop lets the user choose between a range of greys from very light (lighter than Logic 9) all the way to black - then that would be cool, but Apple don't really like doing that, they like to commit to what they really think is the "best" way and the users have to deal with it, like it or not.

 

I understand there are people that don't like it, but I'm not convinced of what the problem actually is given that I haven't found it difficult to read at all. I wonder if some people are running monitors very dark or with low gamma settings - have you tried altering your monitor profile at all to see whether that improves things for you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel what you're going thru. The darker scheme is ok for me, but I really hate the color palette, because it's muddy. At least it doesn't me bother so much, that I would consider to switch to another DAW. Such a switch is always a huge PITA. Did it with Cubase to Protools then to Logic.

 

Depending on your work, I'd recommend you to look also into Reaper. Ableton's mixer just sounds crappy when bouncing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's a lot more work to develop an alternate skin and hundreds of graphic assets, and to continue to create multiple versions when new features require new graphics… if the new GUI had been designed with user customisation in mind - for example, Photoshop lets the user choose between a range of greys from very light (lighter than Logic 9) all the way to black - then that would be cool,

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about… I don't mind the overall GUI, it's purely the background colours that I struggle with. In web, typography and design, light on dark is generally a no-no unless there's good reason. I can't see it's that much work for the devs to provide this option and would be a better use of time (in my opinion) than those god-awful drummers Magnus and Ronnie etc.

 

I understand there are people that don't like it, but I'm not convinced of what the problem actually is given that I haven't found it difficult to read at all. I wonder if some people are running monitors very dark or with low gamma settings - have you tried altering your monitor profile at all to see whether that improves things for you?

 

Of course I've tried everything. Admittedly I have always stuggled with light text on dark backgrounds (indeed there are all sorts of theories around this in design and health circles) but I have perfect vision otherwise. I don't doubt it's a personal/individual thing to an extent, but isn't that the beauty of software? That it can accomodate all needs/demands?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be patient. The trend of the dark colors will eventually change again. Trends you know ;)

 

Exactly! I've known Apple long enough to know they'll tell you something is brilliant one way, then 2 years later they change their mind and tell you it's brilliant another way. I think we're in one of those dark patches right now… Make it usable not fashionable. Basically it's change for changes sake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me its much better to see things on the dark background. I can work longer and my eyes don't stress from the amount of light the bright background produces. Especially when i work at night. I won't mind for the option but i hope they still keep the dark version as well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

really. accessibility's display options. or back up the app, then try a third-party GUI (which you'll have to replace with each logic update). personally, i find i adapt to what there is...with every app. and i find LX easier on the eyes than 9 etc...more musical, less 'spreadsheet-y'". anyway, if LX is the right tool, make it work for you, seems crazy to move to another app. but...whatever works.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree. I am currently using a Neve skin that I paid 5 Euros for and I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to look at all day. There are a lot of free ones out there as the previous post says. Run, don't walk, and switch your colors!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand your frustration. Yes it would be nice to have the GUI choices you mentioned but I find the darker background easier on the eyes. So personally I like the GUI. I get that Apple is making everything look familiar. From GB to LPX to iMovie and to FPCX etc. Maybe it's their way to make it easier (visually) for a User to upgrade... Or maybe it's just an Industry wide thing right now like with Photoshop and DaVinci Resolve. Anyway I hope it all works out for you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two points before you eschew 20 years of Logic experience:

 

* Get a second, large monitor and turn the brightness way up.

 

* Seriously, get your eyes checked ( 20 years of looking at computer screens takes its toll - well it did for me).

 

rz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please forgive the soapbox post that follows - I feel the same way as the OP, just not for the exact same reason:

 

I've using Logic since version 2.5, and I just started working with Logic X a few weeks ago. I can now say I have some serious concerns with the UI as well.

 

The dark color scheme to me is OK in the "tracks area" and graphic editors, but the list editors, libraries, browsers, drop-down and pop-up menus are indeed harder to work with.

 

The new vintage synth to me is really, really stupid. Why on earth do we have multiple completely different synths in one plugin, instead of a plug-in for each synth?

 

The new UI on the compressor really bothers me as well. Like all the new plug-in designs it occupies far too much screen real estate, and I have a 30" display. Being resizable is cool, except that it it's impossible to use at smaller sizes because the controls are so relatively small with vast fields of wasted unused space in between. Analog meters are stupid on plug-ins, because it is much harder to see a moving needle moving across a large space than a simple, skinny, brightly-colored bar graph. And what's with the disappearing knobs when you switch compressor models? Couldn't we just gray them out like before? Every time I try to audition a different model it seems like 3 controls disappear or change function instantly (too fast for my brain to process), and I then need to switch back and forth a few times to visually identify what has changed.

 

I really, really dislike the insert slots on the new channel strips. The problem is that your eyes tend to follow your mouse pointer along the screen, and as soon as your pointer passes over the insert slots, THE NAME OF THE PLUGIN DISAPPEARS so it can change into three tiny, separate buttons (bypass/adjust/change). This continually slows me down, because I almost always need to hover the mouse on and off the control a few times to make sure I've got the right one, and the clickable areas for bypass/adjust/change are so tiny now I frequently click the wrong button. I really wish the legacy behavior could be selected in preferences, in which the name doesn't disappear when you point at it, you click-hold to choose a plug-in for the slot, you double-click to "open" (adjust) the plug-in, option-click to toggle bypass status, and command-click to move the plug-in to a different slot. I spend so much time in the mixer, and the basic task of managing inserts and instruments now requires much more visual effort and concentration.

 

Since iOS7 and Yosemite, Apple is obviously moving away from their past practice of "Skeumorphism" (i.e. attempting to emulate 3-dimensional, real-world devices in computer software). Yosemite's new cleaned-up interface is a bright, stripped down, minimalist 2D affair, but apparently the Logic team didn't get the memo. Emagic used to boast that Logic's plugins don't follow the industry trend of displaying stupid woodgrain panels, clunky knobs and meters for a user interface. Their design is utilitarian, but logical and easy to understand. Signal flow is left-to-right. Controls are usually sliders because their movement follows the mouse, and they take less screen space.

 

Some menu options have now been made hierarchal, but those choices seem arbitrary, as many of the functions I use regularly are now buried behind a triangle.

 

Window zoom controls have changed AGAIN. Apple needs to stop changing this with every new Logic release. One of the best zoom solutions - user-resizable scroll thumbs - were only recently been added to Logic (in version 8 or 9), and now they're taken away. And the vertical/horizontal zoom controls have moved from the bottom-right to the top-right, where I don't think they've been since version 6.

 

I use Logic when I'm in a creative headspace. When the UI changes for the worse, I can't help but think of the older, faster way of working EVERY TIME I have to do it the new way. For example I now get just a little bit pissed off every time I try to adjust something in an insert slot. These little things keep reminding me of functionality that has been sacrificed in the name of flashy, marketable designs, and my resulting personal annoyance is a negative emotion that interferes with my creative process, constantly as I use the software.

 

For electronic artists the software has become the instrument - the "main axe". My well-crafted musical software is as important as my favorite instruments, or perhaps even more so. Apple's Logic team must learn to respect this by being more judicious in their UI adjustments, and providing options to allow longtime users to revert to their familiar way of working.

 

Ableton Live costs about $500 more than Logic. Live's UI is an attrocity to me, but at least it has been relatively unchanged since version 1.0. For creative professionals this is essential. Ableton gets that, Emagic got that. Apple wrote the book on that, but they have lost their way. I will have to jump ship if this doesn't get better, for artistic reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...