"Logic 7 does not support hardware MIDI"- Agree?

[Dante310]

below is an intriguing post which went up over on gearslutz today and which I've heard several other people say recently- basically that as of logic 7 using logic as the center of an external midi setup is really buggy and sometimes even unusable (audio and midi playing out of sync, etc). In the coming months and years I'm planning to integrate a lot more external midi to my production, and as much as I love logic, this would be a real issue for me.

 

Do those of you who use logic as the center of a midi rig (synths etc) agree with what this guy says? or is this just an issue with his setup?

---

 

hi,

 

i've been a Logic user for over 10 years.

 

i use midi hardware extensively -- relying on Logic to send midi clock out to my various drum machines, hardware sequencers, etc

 

over the past few years, i've been having endless problems with sluggish midi, and in particular, i haven't been able to get any of my hardware to sync up properly to Logic via Midi clock...

 

i kept thinking i was doing something wrong -- endless fiddling with hardware and software settings, maxing out my computer's RAM etc, posting on various Logic forums... i even bought a new computer(!) thinking this might help...

 

finally, here's my conclusion (this is not a guess -- i consider it a fact):

 

Logic -- since Apple took it over -- and especially as of Logic 7 -- does not support external midi:

- Midi clock barely works anymore

- Midi gets sloppier as CPU usage increases (i think it has been set up so that audio functions are given total priority... so instead of warning you that opening up another instance of ESX24 or whatever will overload your CPU, it will first take resources away from Midi performance)

 

i'm not being super-picky, like one of those freaks whp points to oscilliscope readings to show midi timing issues, i'm talking midi is clearly, completely, unacceptably messy -- it is unusable.

 

i posted this to a few forums and have received emails and responses from many people who have agreed/confirmed what i'm saying

 

obviously, hardware midi support is of little or no concern to Apple... i even had a certified Logic trainer confirm this for me -- he was told by someone from Logic/Apple: "yes -- Midi clock no longer works -- but who uses Midi clock anymore anyways" (hmmm - have they stopped using MPCs in hip-hop/r&b - today's dominant chart music ??)..... then the guy went on to argue that the same was probably the case with all other DAW-developers.........

 

wrong -- i have switched over to Ableton Live and MOTU DP....... suddenly all of my Midi woes are over.

 

thanks Apple/Logic for wasting two years of my life (this is almost literally true)

 

until Apple officially announces that it is now strictly a self-contained audio/softsynth package, this info needs to get out there to prevent hardware midi users from wasting their time with Logic "Pro"

 

pass it on.... thx, jason

[PP1965]

I have some problems with midi sync in Logic too.

 

If I set midi clock destination to "All", than my Nord Rack 3 receives bad clock values (it can show that value). If midi clock destination is an exact port, for example Motu Midi Port 3, it works fine.

 

There are only two slots to set midi clock destinations, and what can you do, if you would like to sync more than two synthesizers? They will receive wrong value?

[Fred B]

There are only two slots to set midi clock destinations, and what can you do, if you would like to sync more than two synthesizers?

You could send Midi Clock from Logic to the IAC bus and route IAC with 'MidiPipe' to multiple destinations.

[PP1965]

Where can I find more information about the IAC bus?

[Subtonic]

This post is by someone who records under the name of Solvent. According to interviews (and liner notes) he barely uses software synths - every instrument is hardware. So obviously hardware MIDI support is important to him.

 

I think Apple knows that it's in their best interest to get people off hardware and onto software, whether it's their software or not. They've got Macs to sell.

 

Although, I think Apple would be insane to completely eliminate external MIDI support right now, and part of me wonders if this is really just a bug that came with version 7 (and sloppily getting spun by a Logic Pro developer as 'not a big deal') instead of some covert programming meant to keep people from using hardware synths.

[Fred B]

Where can I find more information about the IAC bus?

IAC is built into OS X Tiger.

To activate it, open 'Audio Midi Setup', double-click the IAC driver icon and check 'Device is online'.

 

PS. When sending Midi Clock to IAC, make sure that Logic does not receive Midi Clock to avoid a feedback loop!

[PP1965]

Thank you, Fred B.

[Fred B]

You're welcome.

Hopefully Midi clock timing works well with MidiPipe.

Please report back your experience on this.

[fader8]

I have some problems with midi sync in Logic too.

 

If I set midi clock destination to "All", than my Nord Rack 3 receives bad clock values (it can show that value). If midi clock destination is an exact port, for example Motu Midi Port 3, it works fine.

 

There are only two slots to set midi clock destinations, and what can you do, if you would like to sync more than two synthesizers? They will receive wrong value?

 

If you set the port to All, and you have an IAC bus enabled, this can cause problems, even if you have autosync turned off, in my experience.

 

All the multi-port interfaces I've used can distribute clock selectively, eg Unitor8, AMT8, MTP/AV. If you don't have the equipment to do this properly you can use the thru ports on your synths. I've never had issues with clock, even in Logic 7, sending to another Mac, a Kurzweil, Kyma, etc. In fact, I've found syncing with clock to be tighter than using MTC.

 

Maybe it's a MIDI device driver issue as there are sure plenty of people out there doing this with MPCs and such without problems.

[Ashermusic]

Dante et al, I replied to this guy:

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/130276-fyi-logic-does-not-support-hardware-midi.html#post1342346

[fader8]

Asher,

I read your reply and while I agree with you that MIDI beat clock is outdated, it is still the only option available for syncing LFO's, arpegiators, etc., for external gear.

 

What's really needed is a replacement for MIDI, (like OSC) that offers greater flexibility, resolution, yet can still offer hardware to support the old synths. Ah, but I dream . . .

[PP1965]

Ashermusic, your friend is talking about Midi Time Code, but synthesizers can't receive it. They can receive only Midi Clock, if I know well. They count a lot of sound parameters referring to this MC value (OSC parameters, sound effects like delays, etc). If they receive it from the outer world, than they will by-pass the inner value, and they will use the received value.

 

It is possible of course that this is a driver error in my Motu Express XT USB interface, and there is no error in Logic. But if I use midi clock destination "All" in Cubase 4, it works fine - I'm just changing to Logic. I asked Clavia too, but I haven't received answer yet.

[fader8]

It is possible of course that this is a driver error in my Motu Express XT USB interface, and there is no error in Logic. But if I use midi clock destination "All" in Cubase 4, it works fine - I'm just changing to Logic.

 

Since you're using an Express XT, you should never choose All in the clock destination field in Logic. Route the clock to one of the XT's ports, then configure the clock routing in the Motu Clockworks app.

[PP1965]

I have found this article on the Apple's website:

 

(http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300151)

 

"Logic Pro 7: MIDI clock is always sent to all ports

Even if you choose a specific port for MIDI clock transmission (File > Song Settings > Synchronization... > MIDI), the MIDI clock signal is still sent to MIDI port 0 (all ports).

MIDI Clock is always sent globally to the MIDI interface which then distributes it to all ports. This works similarly with all multi-port MIDI interfaces. This method has the advantage that the MIDI clock signal is sent only once to the interface and not multiple times for each output port, thus reducing the MIDI data stream.

 

Depending on your MIDI interface, you may filter MIDI clock by filtering "realtime messages" in the setup software for the MIDI interface itself. Emagic MIDI interfaces allow this with the included Unitor Control software."

 

Well I tried and this is true. If I send midi clock only to midi port 1 (Triton), others like my Nord Rack 3 will receive this value on midi port 3. Both receive exact value, so this is a right solution to synchronize all of my synthesizers simultaneously.

 

Thanks for your help, guys!

[ski]

I'm curious about this...

 

I went to gearsluts and read the thread. There was a lot of info there so maybe I didn't grok everything, but... did 'solvent' mention what MIDI interface he was using?

 

-=sKi=-

[ski]

Also, on the notion that "MIDI clock is outdated"...

 

By [ahem, ahem] logical conclusion we could say that MIDI itself is outdated. And indeed it is in many respects. Limited bandwidth, blah blah blah. BUT this is a false conclusion, viz: A 20+ year old protocol which remains the standard protocol used in musical instrument design, and which makes millions upon millions of individual pieces of gear still viable for use in a computer-based recording setup cannot then be considered 'outdated'.

 

If there were ever a trend towards deprecating MIDI clock transmission in any particular DAW I'd have to opine that that would be an extremely foolhardy, if not ignorant (or even arrogant) move on the part of the DAW developer. I wouldn't ever expect Logic, for one, to sync well to MIDI clock (it was never brilliant at this, going back to Logic 4), but MIDI clock transmission is still important for interfacing older gear.

 

Are there better ways to 'do MIDI'? Of course. But lots of people would feel a huge sense of alienation, if not betrayal, if someone decided that MIDI clock was no longer viable.

 

Anyway, rant over, going out to mow the lawn.

[Ashermusic]

Also, on the notion that "MIDI clock is outdated"...

 

By [ahem, ahem] logical conclusion we could say that MIDI itself is outdated. And indeed it is in many respects. Limited bandwidth, blah blah blah. BUT this is a false conclusion, viz: A 20+ year old protocol which remains the standard protocol used in musical instrument design, and which makes millions upon millions of individual pieces of gear still viable for use in a computer-based recording setup cannot then be considered 'outdated'.

 

If there were ever a trend towards deprecating MIDI clock transmission in any particular DAW I'd have to opine that that would be an extremely foolhardy, if not ignorant (or even arrogant) move on the part of the DAW developer. I wouldn't ever expect Logic, for one, to sync well to MIDI clock (it was never brilliant at this, going back to Logic 4), but MIDI clock transmission is still important for interfacing older gear.

 

Are there better ways to 'do MIDI'? Of course. But lots of people would feel a huge sense of alienation, if not betrayal, if someone decided that MIDI clock was no longer viable.

 

Anyway, rant over, going out to mow the lawn.

 

I disagree. I don't think it is Apple's mandate, or Digi, Steinberg, etc. to be obligated to support technology that is over 20 years old, particularly devices that cannot claim to have a unique sonic quality that cannot be reproduced by modern devices or software. I mean a TR-808 is not exactly equal in sonic complexity to a Les Paul or even a Mini-Moog.

 

Sooner or later, people have to move on.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Ashermusic

[David Nahmani]

I think Apple should invent a new standard to supersede MIDI ! It's about time.

[Ashermusic]

I think Apple should invent a new standard to supersede MIDI ! It's about time.

 

David you work with folks who work a fair amount with hardware still, correct? Is the mid clock issue a big deal for you?

[David Nahmani]

Not really, but most professionals I work with use MTC over LAN.

[ski]

...I don't think it is Apple's mandate, or Digi, Steinberg, etc. to be obligated to support technology that is over 20 years old...

 

MIDI was an amazingly forward-thinking protocol design at the time it was conceived. In fact, it's so good that it's still used to this day. It's not perfect but then neither are the ITB systems we're running 20+ years later.

 

IMO it's not about mandates... It's about (in no particular order):

 

1. Conforming to the MIDI Spec. That's a pretty basic one.

 

It's either that or someone needs to come up with MIDI-21st Century Edition. Let's call it "MAXI". Should MAXI ever be invented (provided the numerous independent software/hardware companies could ever come to such a consensus without imposing Mac/PC-type exclusivities and "gotchas" on their competitors), this could open up a whole new business for hardware manufacturers, developing MAXI-->MIDI convertors --- a business which I think would make a fortune because there would still be millions of people in the world (if not 100's of millions) who wouldn't just toss out their existing MIDI gear based on an arbitrary decision that "MIDI's too old".

 

2. The idea that "longevity" isn't a notion of yesteryear. I've got a NordLead2 and a Microwave XT which I use on a fairly regular basis, both of which sync to MIDI clock. Without clock my use of those pieces would be fairly limited. It's not up Apple/Digi/Steinberg to dictate, "sorry, but your gear's too old". Decisions such as that would leave nothing but a bitter taste in people's mouths. All of these companies are 3rd party to my clock-capable gear, so who are they to say that a core feature of MIDI -- jittery, wobbly, but still highly useful clock -- should be deprecated?

 

If Logic 8/9/10's spec ever read "MIDI clock: none", it would read like a ripe boil on Marilyn Monroe's face.

 

If she were still alive.

 

You know what I mean...

 

...particularly devices that cannot claim to have a unique sonic quality that cannot be reproduced by modern devices or software. I mean a TR-808 is not exactly equal in sonic complexity to a Les Paul or even a Mimi-Moog.

 

My good friend, that's a matter of taste. There are people, particularly in the dance and hip-hop world, who swear by the sound of the S900/950 for drum samples, in all of its glorious 12-bits. The original TR-808 has a sound that samples and plugs don't always capture. I'm tired of the sound of my Matrix-12 (call me spoiled). I think it sounds too thin compared to the types of sounds I'm into these days. But there are people out there who would give their left tit to own it. The nuances people hear in older gear is what led to the resurgence of popularity in modular synths. I could go on, but I think my point is clear -- one man's TR-808 is another man's Les Paul (which, best I recall, doesn't have MIDI jacks, poor thing...)

 

-=sKi=-

[Ashermusic]

...I don't think it is Apple's mandate, or Digi, Steinberg, etc. to be obligated to support technology that is over 20 years old...

 

MIDI was an amazingly forward-thinking protocol design at the time it was conceived. In fact, it's so good that it's still used to this day. It's not perfect but then neither are the ITB systems we're running 20+ years later.

 

IMO it's not about mandates... It's about (in no particular order):

 

1. Conforming to the MIDI Spec. That's a pretty basic one.

 

It's either that or someone needs to come up with MIDI-21st Century Edition. Let's call it "MAXI". Should MAXI ever be invented (provided the numerous independent software/hardware companies could ever come to such a consensus without imposing Mac/PC-type exclusivities and "gotchas" on their competitors), this could open up a whole new business for hardware manufacturers, developing MAXI-->MIDI convertors --- a business which I think would make a fortune because there would still be millions of people in the world (if not 100's of millions) who wouldn't just toss out their existing MIDI gear based on an arbitrary decision that "MIDI's too old".

 

2. The idea that "longevity" isn't a notion of yesteryear. I've got a NordLead2 and a Microwave XT which I use on a fairly regular basis, both of which sync to MIDI clock. Without clock my use of those pieces would be fairly limited. It's not up Apple/Digi/Steinberg to dictate, "sorry, but your gear's too old". Decisions such as that would leave nothing but a bitter taste in people's mouths. All of these companies are 3rd party to my clock-capable gear, so who are they to say that a core feature of MIDI -- jittery, wobbly, but still highly useful clock -- should be deprecated?

 

Of Logic 8/9/10's spec ever read "MIDI clock: none", it would read like a ripe boil on Marilyn Monroe's face.

 

...particularly devices that cannot claim to have a unique sonic quality that cannot be reproduced by modern devices or software. I mean a TR-808 is not exactly equal in sonic complexity to a Les Paul or even a Mimi-Moog.

 

My good friend, that's a matter of taste. There are people, particularly in the dance and hip-hop world, who swear by the sound of the S900/950 for drum samples, in all of its glorious 12-bits. The original TR-808 has a sound that samples and plugs don't always capture. I'm tired of the sound of my Matrix-12 (call me spoiled). I think it sounds too thin compared to the types of sounds I'm into these days. But there are people out there who would give their left tit to own it. The nuances people hear in older gear is what led to the resurgence of popularity in modular synths. I could go on, but I think my point is clear -- one man's TR-808 is another man's Les Paul (which, best I recall, doesn't have MIDI jacks, poor thing...)

 

-=sKi=-

 

1. So does the Nord Lead i.e. not work properly with MTC and MMC?

 

2. The S900-950 is a sampler. The only unique thing about it is its filters (which suck compared to Emu's btw IMHO.)

 

I will bet you that I could duplicate the TR-808 so faithfully in several ways that none of those guys could pick it out in a mix from the others.

 

Regardless nothing lasts forever,

 

1. People screamed blue murder when Logic OSX brought in AU and did not support VST. They either adapted or moved on to another app.

 

2. People screamed blue murder when Apple dropped Windows support for Logic. They either bought a Mac, stayed with what they had, or moved on to another app.

 

Technology is not a business for those who wish to stand still.

[ski]

The two synths I mentioned accept only MIDI Clock for syncing LFO's and arpeggiators.

 

The S900's filters suck. I agree. But some people like that "suck". And others keep the filter wide open so that the raw sound of that 12-bit machine makes their sonic statement. Whether or not a piece of gear is viable cannot be mandated.

 

Nothing lasts forever. True 'nuf. But in the case of advancements in music technology, we shouldn't lose sight of the key point: "music". And IMO the technology part is supposed to serve the creative process, not supplant it.

 

To get back to the point, I'm not saying for one millisecond that MIDI Clock is perfect. But it was -- and still is -- good enough to get the job done in various genre's of music on hundreds of thousands of extant pieces of MIDI gear.

 

My final point... with computers being so fast these days, I can't help but wonder... how bloody hard could it be for a computer to spit out a MIDI clock signal (at 24 ppqn)? Seems like it would be a dirt simple programming task to get MIDI clock timing right amongst all of the other MIDI-oriented calculations that a program like Logic already does.

[Ashermusic]

The two synths I mentioned accept only MIDI Clock for syncing LFO's and arpeggiators.

 

The S900's filters suck. I agree. But some people like that "suck". And others keep the filter wide open so that the raw sound of that 12-bit machine makes their sonic statement. Whether or not a piece of gear is viable cannot be mandated.

 

Nothing lasts forever. True 'nuf. But in the case of advancements in music technology, we shouldn't lose sight of the key point: "music". And IMO the technology part is supposed to serve the creative process, not supplant it.

 

To get back to the point, I'm not saying for one millisecond that MIDI Clock is perfect. But it was -- and still is -- good enough to get the job done in various genre's of music on hundreds of thousands of extant pieces of MIDI gear.

 

My final point... with computers being so fast these days, I can't help but wonder... how bloody hard could it be for a computer to spit out a MIDI clock signal (at 24 ppqn)? Seems like it would be a dirt simple programming task to get MIDI clock timing right amongst all of the other MIDI-oriented calculations that a program like Logic already does.

 

Not to be argumentative (OK so I am being argumentative:) but if one's creativity is hostage to a synth or two one has bigger issues than Midi Clock.

 

I know your's is certainly not.

 

Get used to it folks, midi clock is going the way of Betamax, SCSI, and floppy disks.

[knolan]

I run a project studio with significant amounts of MIDI gear. I have to say that I find the responses form Ashemusic in particular to be incredibly arrogant.

 

You are effectively implying that because MIDI is 20 years old that its worthless. Does that make a piano utterly irrelevant because its 200+ years old. And what's this value measurement of an 808 versus a Les Paul? What benchmarks and metrics are you using there?

 

Your and the implied Apple-Logic reasoning on the MIDI issues mentioned here are so flawed that I'm not going to even bother to respond to the individual points. Suffice it to say that every music technology company, bar none, today, implements MIDI because its among the most universal of music technology protocols. It has liberated the music technology world in the same way that TCP/IP liberated computers. It's obvious and well known failings are not a reason to ignore it, and there is no current substitute.

 

As for David proposing that 'Apple' replace MIDI. I honestly can't believe you wrote that! What have Apple got to do with implementing defacto world standards?

 

As numerous posts of mine will show, Logic is in my view, disgracefully poor when it comes to MIDI; and that only reveals the superficiality of those designing it.

 

This forum - which started out so brightly only several years ago, is in my view badly letting itself down with threads containing replies as exemplified by Ashermusic. All music generated through Logic - MIDI or otherwise - is valid, and deserves equal treatment from a serious forum. This is not the first time that such arrogance has been perpetuated on this forum.

 

MIDI aside, you are effectively declaring null and void the concept of communications and control protocols for music technology outside of an apple box. Should we drop other standards as well? Are you aware of the colossal use of the likes of MIDI by entities called 'people' for a particular thing they do called 'live performance' - not just in music but in lighting and dance as well as across numerous contemporary and avant-garde art forms? And as an owner of many classic synthesizers, it is for me a daily privilege to be able to play what is the music technology outcome of pure genius from the many synthesizer designers throughout the ages and integrate these instruments, though MIDI, with Logic. MIDI allows that to happen. The logical outcome of your proposition is that musical instruments should not be interfacable to Logic, for control purposes.

 

You may be happy with your one-dimensional GUI music synthesizers in you one-dimensional sequencer for your one-dimensional music; but I recommend that if you choose to remain blinkered about the universe of creative uses of technologies that include the use of MIDI and that link the real world and the superlative talents of artists to computers, then I'm afraid your views on MIDI and the seemingly 'inside-line and superior views' by those 'superior apple developers' will speak all too clearly for themselves to all earnest artists, whatever their genre.

 

Kevin.

[David Nahmani]

As for David proposing that 'Apple' replace MIDI. I honestly can't believe you wrote that! What have Apple got to do with implementing defacto world standards?

I don't understand your question.

 

What did Sequential Circuits, Inc. have to do with implementing MIDI?

 

What did Apple have to with implementing Firewire?

 

This forum - which started out so brightly only several years ago, is in my view badly letting itself down with threads containing replies as exemplified by Ashermusic.

Why does ONE poster saying his mind means this forum letting itself down? As the forum owner, I am hurt by your remark. Do you suggest I censor the forum and delete posts by Ashermusic? That's not really the spirit of this forum, or of democracy in general for that matter.

 

MIDI aside, you are effectively declaring null and void the concept of communications and control protocols for music technology outside of an apple box. Should we drop other standards as well? Are you aware of the colossal use of the likes of MIDI by entities called 'people' for a particular thing they do called 'live performance' - not just in music but in lighting and dance as well as across numerous contemporary and avant-garde art forms? And as an owner of many classic synthesizers, it is for me a daily privilege to be able to play what is the music technology outcome of pure genius from the many synthesizer designers throughout the ages and integrate these instruments, though MIDI, with Logic. MIDI allows that to happen. The logical outcome of your proposition is that musical instruments should not be interfacable to Logic, for control purposes.

 

You may be happy with your one-dimensional GUI music synthesizers in you one-dimensional sequencer for your one-dimensional music; but I recommend that if you choose to remain blinkered about the universe of creative uses of technologies that include the use of MIDI and that link the real world and the superlative talents of artists to computers, then I'm afraid your views on MIDI and the seemingly 'inside-line and superior views' by those 'superior apple developers' will speak all too clearly for themselves to all earnest artists, whatever their genre.

I have no idea if you're still addressing me? I'm not saying something should supersede MIDI today or tomorrow, and MIDI should go out. I never said that. I'm saying they should come up with a more modern solution for MIDI, which little by little should end up supersede MIDI. And I'm not saying whatever replaces MIDI shouldn't be compatible with MIDI either.

 

Just because we have MIDI doesn't mean we should be stuck working with it forever. It has many limitations. I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying come up with something better that hopefully will slowly become the new standard.

[ski]

Jay...

 

Argument? I thought we were engaging in friendly debate.

 

 

[insert Fred Flintstone "hoo, boy..." here]

 

Not to be argumentative (OK so I am being argumentative:) but if one's creativity is hostage to a synth or two one has bigger issues than Midi Clock.

 

Ye takest my pointeth too far...

 

One could argue ("debate") that the career classical pianist is hostage to a centuries-old legacy of practicing other people's music, that they create nothing original and are unwitting pawns of the monied old guard who wish to keep alive vestiges of a world which no longer exists but for a small minority of the population. So by dint of the popular music made by kids with more hacker sense than musical sense should classical music be deprecated cuz "that's where things are going"?

 

(BTW, I'd like to know where I come up with this stuff. Anyone?)

 

Seriously, like I said, how hard could it be to program a DAW to spit out MIDI Clock -- at its super-low resolution -- while already perfectly capable of spitting out all kinds of other bandwith-dense MIDI streams such as MTC?

 

There's no excuse, IMO, from either an ethical or a programming perspective, to deprecate MIDI clock or in any other way deviate from the MIDI protocol that so many people now depend on, for better or worse. Show me a programmer who can't program a DAW to spit out lowly MIDI clock at the proper intervals and I'll show you a lazy-ass programmer!

 

I know your's is certainly not.

 

Thanks Jay.

 

Get used to it folks, midi clock is going the way of Betamax, SCSI, and floppy disks.

 

Over my dead...[bLUDGEON!]

[johan]

Hmm midi timing has always sucked in Logic and tools for that matter too.

Although I wouldn't use midi beatclock to sync to a mpc etc as I think mtc is working better Ireally don't see that much reason to scrap MIDI altogether.

 

I can certainly understand that for instance a classical pianist will require more then 128 velocity layers but your average pop producer?

 

Anyway Atari 1040 is the way forward

[ski]

Anyway Atari 1040 is the way forward

 

LOL!!

 

Perhaps we should end the discussion on that note?

 

8)

[knolan]

Hi David

 

My only point directed toward you was the one on Apple and a new standard.

 

To both Ashermusic and David - sorry for getting so hot under the collar and attacking you - utterly wrong on my part - I can't take back what I wrote, but I feel I need to defend indifference on MIDI - because it is being effectively abandoned by Apple.

 

That aside - I need to qualify to other readers what they already know - David - you have been incredibly generous with your expertise - especially to me in the early days of trying to figure out Logic. And again Ashermusic - sorry for attacking you.

 

That aside I feel that MIDI is ignored both by Apple and largely by this forum. I realise this is a loose and voluntary community, but I personally believe that the view that 'its all about the plugins' can only be a shorter-term view. Eventually real-world interaction is desirable, currently the only effective way is through MIDI (and hopefully some future replacement) yet Apple-Logic cannot see this.

 

Anyway, as said, my apologies for coming at you personally - but I felt that the original post was valid yet 'taken down' by Ashermusic.

 

Regards,

Kevin.