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Logic X External Instruments A Big Fail! Or Buggy?


logic8mine

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First, a little background. I've been using external instruments since Logic 8 with my Motif XS8. I never liked the LX incarnation of E.I's or the way they've eliminated the ability to see midi ports in the Library. So, I've since gravitated toward V.I.'s, since I've put a lot of money into them. Now that I have a little more room in my studio, I'm going to start recording more of the Motif again. Or, so I thought. The problems are too numerous to go into in detail but, in short, I am experiencing both a midi bleed and an audio bleed and cannot rectify.

 

Basically, this is the setup.: mLan card to mbp via FireWire carries 8 stereo pairs into Logic and three audio pairs out. I have created, per my custom, 8 external instruments, set their discreet inputs 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, etc. setup the midi port and midi channel within the individual E.I.'s and corresponding midi channel in the inspector. (Still doesn't stop the midi bleed). Outputs on the mLan card are labeled- L/R, 3-4, 5-6. I usually set these all to 3-4.

 

In the past, if I select track one, only track one plays. So far, so good. I select track two and both of the first two tracks play. And, I can hear both piano (trk 1) and bass (trk 2). After setting the midi channels in the inspector, I no longer hear both instruments however, the bass plays through both tracks. In fact all track audio plays through track one. When I change the output settings of each track to 1-2 (the mLan's L/R), only the bass continues to play through trk 1. No obvious way to rectify it.

 

Finally, I've add 'Or Buggy' to the title because after taking the extremely long amount of time it takes to type this on an iPhone and correct this stupid spellchecker, I return to the keyboard to make sure I haven't left out anything and everything now is behaving perfectly. Turning this into a rant of sorts for the time being. Sigh. Lol

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Hi,

 

I never liked the LX incarnation of E.I's or the way they've eliminated the ability to see midi ports in the Library.

 

I can see ports and midi channels in the Library just fine here...when using external MIDI tracks, that is. As far as I know, the Library has never shown ports and channels when using the external instrument plug-in.

 

setup the midi port and midi channel within the individual E.I.'s and corresponding midi channel in the inspector.

 

If you're using the external instrument plug-in, that setting is irrelevant. MIDI data arriving at the plug-in will be channelized to whatever MIDI channel you've set in the external instrument plug-ins "MIDI channel" drop-down.

 

Anyway, not sure what's going on over there but it kind of sounds like a monitoring problem?

 

For what it's worth, things are working fine here when using multiple external synths.

 

J.

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Hi,

 

I can see ports and midi channels in the Library just fine here...when using external MIDI tracks, that is. As far as I know, the Library has never shown ports and channels when using the external instrument plug-in.

Thanks Jordi,

 

The XS sends four different ports into Logic. While I won't bore you with the details, I have always been able to see the ports, even when using E.I's by pressing Command + L. I used to, for example, be able to use the 'New Track With Next Channel' when creating the E.I's. That now has disasterous or rather useless results.

 

If you're using the external instrument plug-in, that setting (the inspector midi channel) is irrelevant. MIDI data arriving at the plug-in will be channelized to whatever MIDI channel you've set in the external instrument plug-ins "MIDI channel" drop-down.

Not so. It is, at least now, absolutely critical. And, so that we are very clear, I am not speaking of a single instance of E.I. or several E.I's using various synths. This is a multi-timbral, multi-output audio / midi interface and the simplicity of setup is gone. I am addressing 8 separate MIDI tracks with the XS, they each are sending 8 separate stereo pairs of audio into Logic. For the time being, they each are routed to the same output bus, until I am ready to record them as separate audio tracks. Logic X is monitored through this same mLan interface. Should be straightforward. One my end, the steps I used to use to troubleshoot are no longer relevant or available.

 

There is no logical reason, pun intended, that two discreet channels (both MIDI-wise and Audio wise) should feed back into one another. Prior to maybe 2012, this was a setup I used everyday for at least 4+ years without issue.

 

Anyway, not sure what's going on over there but it kind of sounds like a monitoring problem? For what it's worth, things are working fine here when using multiple external synths.

I have experienced these same issues before in LX. There wasn't until now, a compelling reason to attempt to plow through them. I will recheck the setup again tomorrow to see whether the same issues persist.

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I also use them all the time. No issues here either

It does not seem, from your signature at least, that we are speaking of the same utilization of the E.I's. I'm using a single workstation and audio card which allows you to address several channels of both MIDI and Audio simultaneously.

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You are correct. I was just confirming no problems based on EI's use with other gear. My configuration does not utilize an mlan or motif but I do use MT instruments via the presonus with several stereo pairs (analog) and multiple midi channels. Was just confirming no problems on the core logic side. Sorry should have qualified that previously
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While I won't bore you with the details, I have always been able to see the ports, even when using E.I's by pressing Command + L. I used to, for example, be able to use the 'New Track With Next Channel' when creating the E.I's. That now has disasterous or rather useless results.

 

Hmm, I guess I don't know what you're calling "E.I" here. :?:

 

Not so. It is, at least now, absolutely critical. And, so that we are very clear, I am not speaking of a single instance of E.I. or several E.I's using various synths. This is a multi-timbral, multi-output audio / midi interface and the simplicity of setup is gone. I am addressing 8 separate MIDI tracks with the XS, they each are sending 8 separate stereo pairs of audio into Logic.

 

It doesn't matter if you're using a single mono-timbral external instrument, several external instruments, or a single multi-timbral instrument...when using the External Instrument plug-in, it's the MIDI channel set in its drop-down menu has the final say on what MIDI channel is used to transmit the data:

 

710985298_ScreenShot2015-06-07at01_13_01.thumb.png.da6e7ea510586f78d902ce6ae8871012.png

 

J.

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While I won't bore you with the details, I have always been able to see the ports, even when using E.I's by pressing Command + L. I used to, for example, be able to use the 'New Track With Next Channel' when creating the E.I's. That now has disasterous or rather useless results.

 

Hmm, I guess I don't know what you're calling "E.I" here. :?:

 

Not so. It is, at least now, absolutely critical. And, so that we are very clear, I am not speaking of a single instance of E.I. or several E.I's using various synths. This is a multi-timbral, multi-output audio / midi interface and the simplicity of setup is gone. I am addressing 8 separate MIDI tracks with the XS, they each are sending 8 separate stereo pairs of audio into Logic.

 

It doesn't matter if you're using a single mono-timbral external instrument, several external instruments, or a single multi-timbral instrument...when using the External Instrument plug-in, it's the MIDI channel set in its drop-down menu has the final say on what MIDI channel is used to transmit the data:

 

ArabicBounce.pst.zip 993431857_EGS.3.png.4a1106f13a7d3fa0003bbc559a0a44c9.png

Perhaps my memory could be faulty regarding seeing the ports in the Library but.. I don't think so. i still have 9.1.8 on an old MBP. I'll take it to Church and check it tomorrow.

 

Sorry for the endless editing!!! couldn't get the pics aligned properly inline

1145439840_EGS.4.png.c76f178027e9e94a9844c4a1fff5d8dd.png

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Press option key before opening the instruments menu, you will see a section called Legacy.

The old external instrument plugin with ports is there

 

A-ha! Hadn't noticed that one! Thanks for the tip, nanook! It allows to access environment objects which is what is not possible to do with the "modern" version (as we already discussed in this other thread, logic8mine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103781).

 

Still, I think it's easier not to use multi-instrument objects in conjunction with the external instrument plug-in, and to take advantage of new features available in LPX, like using the scripter plug-in to deal with Program and Bank changes:

 

141230988_ScreenShot2015-06-07at14_28_13.thumb.png.c94864a1078d42e39b76ae6c4d771f82.png

 

J.

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Just to clarify...

 

Anytime the XS was connected to the MBP, its ports were visible in the inspector.

 

That's not the inspector you're showing in your image, that''s the external instrument plug-in's "MIDI Destination" drop-down menu.

 

J.

??? Yes, I know that. I mentioned it was not formerly necessary to select MIDI channels in the Inspector because they are selected in the E.I. as illustrated... But, the word Inspector was a mistype, in that sentence. I had been discussing seeing the ports in the Library, not in the Inspector.

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Ok then, working in Logic 9 today, I've refreshed my memory in a few things. It is correct that you cannot view the MIDI ports in the Library when working with EI's (I also gave the wrong shortcut- option + L). What I was remembering, incorrectly so, was the necessity of first creating an external midi track to force the midi port of the XS to appear in the Library before creating the EI. After doing so, the port then appears in the EI window and can be selected with the midi channel as in the pics above. anyway, I have created the identical tracks, ports & outputs as mentioned above. Everything plays perfectly. Selecting track 1 plays trk 1- audio signal registers on trk 1; trk 2 plays trk 2 and so on. As expected. No need to change midi channels in the Inspector in L9. Now back to LX.
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Right. And know that we know there's the legacy version of the plug-in, you'll be able to recreate your old workflow in Logic Pro X as well. J.

I have been using the old EI until now.

 

Idk. LX is playing as expected also. That is when using output ports L/R or 5-6. 3-4 still feeds back and bleeds into other channels. I also am setting them up using the External MIDI, and checking External Instrument plug-in when creating new tracks. I'll figure out later why using the older EI does not register audio input signal until recording MIDI. The older EI feeds back into trk 1 as well. Feedback is audio only at this point.

 

I still must create and delete an External Midi track in order to see the XS port.

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Press option key before opening the instruments menu, you will see a section called Legacy.

The old external instrument plugin with ports is there

Btw, thanks for the shortcut. I have been taking the long route:

Library>Legacy>Logic>Logic Instruments>External Instrument. I get tired just looking at it. :D

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Still, I think it's easier not to use multi-instrument objects in conjunction with the external instrument plug-in, and to take advantage of new features available in LPX, like using the scripter plug-in to deal with Program and Bank changes: J.

This would taking some getting used to. I created an environment object the the XS 8 which contains all of my custom voices edits and imported samples. I just copy it over into the environment- even in LX.

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I'll figure out later why using the older EI does not register audio input signal until recording MIDI.

 

Here that works as expected with the old EI plug.

 

I still must create and delete an External Midi track in order to see the XS port.

 

You can also manually create a multi-instrument object in the environment, which is what's going on behind the scenes when you create an external MIDI track.

 

I created an environment object the the XS 8 which contains all of my custom voices

 

This is one of the advantages of working with External MIDI tracks. But I don't see how you're taking advantage of that by using the EI plug the way you've explained. How do you get to your custom programs through the External Instrument plug-in?

 

J.

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You can also manually create a multi-instrument object in the environment, which is what's going on behind the scenes when you create an external MIDI track.

That's what I was calling my environment object. The ports still do not appear in the E.I. without first creating the External Midi track here.

 

I created an environment object the the XS 8 which contains all of my custom voices

 

This is one of the advantages of working with External MIDI tracks. But I don't see how you're taking advantage of that by using the EI plug the way you've explained. How do you get to your custom programs through the External Instrument plug-in? J.

You are correct. I am still reacquainting myself with my former workflow. When using the E.I.'s, I employ the XS' Editor to save and recall voice, effects, audio channel outputs and other XS settings.

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