OS X El Capitan - Not supported Software and Hardware

[mconnelly]

Weird that supposedly Firewire support is getting phased out considering that MOTU makes it sound like the FW is generally working fine for them and they're having issues with USB.

 

http://www.motu.com/newsitems/motu-and-os-x-el-capitan

[Eric Cardenas]

My understanding is that the generic "class compliant" firewire driver is the one that is affected.

Apogee uses this driver at least for their original Duet and probably for the Ensemble as well.

MOTU and RME make their own drivers and are therefore not affected by the decision to phase out this kernel extension.

[fisherking]

I have things technically "working" too, but there is nothing "stable" about this OS. I agree it may not be "everyone", but from my research, it's a lot of folks. And since I had no such problem with Yosemite at all, then that tells me that El Cap may not have been quite ready to unleash. Some dev's will take months to catch up and some will not even bother. Glad you have not had these issues, but trust me, many have. It depends on what you do and what you have hooked up.

 

keep in mind what you're experiencing is not what everyone is experiencing; check apple's forums, macrumors, etc. some people are having a great experience, others not. my own observation is that people tend to post frustration and anger more than posting when things ARE working.only a handful of people post on forums too...what's happening in the 'bigger' world is hardly reflected on web forums.

 

i am, so far, finding 10.11 to be more stable than yosemite was (am on the 10.11.1public beta2). so...we're all having different experiences (not surprising, we all have different hardware/apps/plugins/etc).

 

best to seek out solutions for your issues. and it makes sense to not assume a problem is global...just because you're experiencing it.

[Ashermusic]

Folks, you are never going to out-stubborn this guy. It does not matter how many developers report issues and recommend staying away for now, how many users report issues and recommend staying away for now, because his specific third party stuff has no problem he is going to keep defending the update.

 

The fact is that many more users who use a significant amount of third party stuff post that they are having issues than not. And by a wide margin.

[xgman]

It is true that more people post the bad/problems than the good on forums in general, but I know what I know, and this time it is worse than before by a wide margin. I've been on the cutting edge since Jaguar and this is the worst of the bunch out of the gate in my opinion. Likely due to the SIP thing and the new rushed schedule. That said, if anyone is not having any issues, then more power to you! For me, I'll continue with my workarounds and anxiously wait for the updates as they come and hope things settle down.

[fisherking]

Folks, you are never going to out-stubborn this guy. It does not matter how many developers report issues and recommend staying away for now, how many users report issues and recommend staying away for now, because his specific third party stuff has no problem he is going to keep defending the update.

 

The fact is that many more users who use a significant amount of third party stuff post that they are having issues than not. And by a wide margin.

 

your statistics come from where exactly? and i'm reporting my experience, not negating anyone else's (other than to point out that someone's particular experience may not be a "universal' one). my third party plugins are hardly obscure (fabfilter, uhe, etc). so, it may just be possible that others are not having crises in el capitan.

 

if you don't agree with me that's fine. but constantly arguing my points only makes you as stubborn as i am (which, i guess, is ok).

[Ashermusic]

Total the number of posts by you in these three threads dealing with the update. My guess is yours are the most numerous by far and one of the relatively few positive experiences.

 

I will make a deal with you: how about I write no more about it and you don't? My guess is that you will not agree toit.

[fisherking]

Total the number of posts by you in these three threads dealing with the update. My guess is yours are the most numerous by far and one of the relatively few positive experiences.

 

I will make a deal with you: how about I write no more about it and you don't? My guess is that you will not agree toit.

 

while you didn't address anything (where you're getting your statistics from, how all my 'mainstream' plugins are able to work)...i hear you. still, as you're not my dad (your'e not, are you?) am not obligated to agree to your 'deal'; this isn't a thread solely about you & me (is it?)

 

ok, done. if i stop following this thread, i won't have any more opinions about it. 8)

[mconnelly]

this time it is worse than before by a wide margin. I've been on the cutting edge since Jaguar and this is the worst of the bunch out of the gate in my opinion.

 

For audio software specifically, no question there are more issues than usual. But for the OS overall I have seen many reports calling it the most polished .0 release in years. In the case of audio, for the most part the issue is compatibility, not stability - plugins either seem to not run at all (either failing AU validation, or have code in folders that is no longer allowed), or run as well as they ever have.

[xgman]

I'm hoping for a LPX update soon. I've had more Logic crashes in the last couple days than in the last couple years. Most of the crashes were on Logic startup though and not while in use.

and for what its' worth (not much I know), I wholeheartedly disagree with the above sentiment of "the most polished". Maybe if you don't install anything. Those reviewers are not really doing what we do with an OS. Even so, I find the basic utility of this update to be ever more limiting. It feels very mush like a step backwards to me and I really, really wanted to like this. I have no issue with those that may disagree. I am glad they have a better experience than I do with this. Sorry to be complaining. I'm just disappointed.

[YosserTenThousand]

Total the number of posts by you in these three threads dealing with the update. My guess is yours are the most numerous by far and one of the relatively few positive experiences.

 

I will make a deal with you: how about I write no more about it and you don't? My guess is that you will not agree toit.

 

 

I dont understand the problem with this, I appreciate fisherkings crazy updateitis as it helps myself and others make an informed decision. He's always clear to state that what he's reporting is just his personal experience and never negates anyone elses experience if it happens to be negative, in fact if you look back he also posts when he's having issues. He just doesn't instantly decide having issues means doom and gloom and the worst release of OS X ever etc.

 

I have not updated yet myself as i would rather wait until things stabilise a bit with the third party validation but in the meantime the more posts in this thread by people with first hand experience is great and since fisherking has been through every beta and multiple workarounds his knowledge is a valuable contribution.

[Daggilarr]

I agree Yosser. I am following this thread to get info on when issues are resolved and or identified.

 

I am going to start a new thread called El Capitan rant bin, so folks who want to vent or enjoy others rants can avoid wading through loads of factual and practical information.

[Ashermusic]

Look, some like me listed the many companies that advised against updating. Certainly not ranting, just advising. Fisherking came on and said he was not having those problems. Now if he did so and listed the plug-ins he was using, and simply left it at that i would be fine with it.

 

But he is like the mayor in "Jaws" and repeatedly keeps saying, " You can Ignore the Great White Shark in the water, I have gone swimming and I am fine."

 

I work part time as EastWest's Online Coordinator so I spend a fair amount of time seeing how frustrated folks get when their software doesn't work. And it IS frustrating, especially when you are getting paid to deliver music on deadlines. I just am trying to spare people that pain. I suspect a month or so from now there will be an El Capitan update and all the software and hardware developers who are having issues will have made their adjustments in consultation with Apple.

 

Like David, I help a lot of high level pros with Logic Pro and I don't know a single one of them who would even consider updating an OS unless they had a fair amount of time between projects. Not even a single one. I suspect that David will tell you roughly the same. Usually they would use a second machine to test if they were really curious, not their primary machine. Hell, if I owned a laptop in addition to my Mac, I might.

 

Now FIsherking says he is a working pro and although there is little evidence of it on his website, I will take him at his word for it. So i will only say that in my fairly long experience, the way he approaches new updates is rather untypical of professionals and IMHO unwise.

 

OK, now I really am done other than to say that as EW's Online Coordinator, EastWest does not recommend updating to El Capitan for our libraries at this point in time.

[fisherking]

Look, some like me listed the many companies that advised against updating. Certainly not ranting, just advising. Fisherking came on and said he was not having those problems. Now if he did so and listed the plug-ins he was using, and simply left it at that i would be fine with it.

 

But he is like the mayor in "Jaws" and repeatedly keeps saying, " You can Ignore the Great White Shark in the water, I have gone swimming and I am fine."

 

I work part time as EastWest's Online Coordinator so I spend a fair amount of time seeing how frustrated folks get when their software doesn't work. And it IS frustrating, especially when you are getting paid to deliver music on deadlines. I just am trying to spare people that pain. I suspect a month or so from now there will be an El Capitan update and all the software and hardware developers who are having issues will have made their adjustments in consultation with Apple.

 

Like David, I help a lot of high level pros with Logic Pro and I don't know a single one of them who would even consider updating an OS unless they had a fair amount of time between projects. Not even a single one. I suspect that David will tell you roughly the same. Usually they would use a second machine to test if they were really curious, not their primary machine. Hell, if I owned a laptop in addition to my Mac, I might.

 

Now FIsherking says he is a working pro and although there is little evidence of it on his website, I will take him at his word for it. So i will only say that in my fairly long experience, the way he approaches new updates is rather untypical of professionals and IMHO unwise.

 

OK, now I really am done other than to say that as EW's Online Coordinator, EastWest does not recommend updating to El Capitan for our libraries at this point in time.

 

ah, jay...now you're just being petty. i stopped posting at your request, as you said you would stop as well. yet here you are...attacking me again.

 

i did post most of my plugins...read again. and try this:

 

http://floydfisher.com

 

ok, so my approach is untypical. same with the music: untypical. what's wrong with that? if we all played it safe in our lives...what would our art be like? anyway, thanks to those who saw that i was just posting my experiences. and jay...maybe look at why you're turning this into a conflict: i'm just reporting my experiences, etc...trying to help, on a forum i love being a part of.

 

peace!

[Ashermusic]

OK fine, fisherking, peace it is.

[FuzzBub]

Like many people, I don't plan to update for at least a while, until things settle down (I'm still back on Mavericks, and for a while now have only done every-other OS updates, to spare myself annual aggravation).

 

But although I don't plan to take the plunge immediately, as I monitor the situation to see what's fixed and isn't, I've seen conflicting information as to whether eLicenser plugins (such as Steinberg, ReFX or Vengeance) are categorically not working. (I haven't seen similar complaints that iLok plugins are categorically broken.)

 

So does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with eLicenser on El Capitan?

[YosserTenThousand]

Look, some like me listed the many companies that advised against updating. Certainly not ranting, just advising. Fisherking came on and said he was not having those problems. Now if he did so and listed the plug-ins he was using, and simply left it at that i would be fine with it.

 

But he is like the mayor in "Jaws" and repeatedly keeps saying, " You can Ignore the Great White Shark in the water, I have gone swimming and I am fine."

 

I work part time as EastWest's Online Coordinator so I spend a fair amount of time seeing how frustrated folks get when their software doesn't work. And it IS frustrating, especially when you are getting paid to deliver music on deadlines. I just am trying to spare people that pain. I suspect a month or so from now there will be an El Capitan update and all the software and hardware developers who are having issues will have made their adjustments in consultation with Apple.

 

Like David, I help a lot of high level pros with Logic Pro and I don't know a single one of them who would even consider updating an OS unless they had a fair amount of time between projects. Not even a single one. I suspect that David will tell you roughly the same. Usually they would use a second machine to test if they were really curious, not their primary machine. Hell, if I owned a laptop in addition to my Mac, I might.

 

Now FIsherking says he is a working pro and although there is little evidence of it on his website, I will take him at his word for it. So i will only say that in my fairly long experience, the way he approaches new updates is rather untypical of professionals and IMHO unwise.

 

OK, now I really am done other than to say that as EW's Online Coordinator, EastWest does not recommend updating to El Capitan for our libraries at this point in time.

 

I agree it is untypical but different strokes for different folks, it seems for some reason that you have taken it personally (I'm not saying you have but that is how the posts start to come across) that fisherking does not follow the method most widely used by pros. I could understand if he was hitting all the boards telling people they should upgrade now but thats not the case at all.

[Spiralsurfer]

I'm pretty happy with how Logic and everything else is performing on 10.10.5, everything works and the system feels really snappy. What I'm wondering is even once the third party plug in issues are solved is there really much point updating to 10.11.1? Are there any new features that will positively impact audio? I am using a Duet firewire and will be for a little while yet, so given the end of support for it I'm seriously considering freezing my system at 10.10.5 much like I did on 10.6.8, which I stayed with until finally upgrading directly to the last version of Mavericks.

 

I'm tempted to upgrade as I saw a few interesting features and I recall reading somewhere that it seems to result in better performance for older machines like my aging MacPro, anyone else on a similar set up who can confirm or deny this?

[skijumptoes]

To be fair to Floyd, it doesn't take much to try an OS X update, you only have to mirror to another drive and update. Or, install fresh onto another drive and boot select - i could get running within a few hours enough to carry on with my main work. He may have done it that way, and all is ok so he's stuck with it, and slowly brought each element in to play.

 

Most professionals should be capable/equipped with such methods to ensure that they have disaster recovery options sorted - that's one of the reasons i will be doing a clean wipe, it's very effective to check what data you can/can't retrieve, and any issues you encounter can be fed back into your workflow. i.e. extend good practises such as including linked sound files in project folders, silly things like that etc.

 

Once everything i use is supported, This will be my first fresh install which i shall be rebuilding using a cloud solution to restore my data. I've been running cloud backups for a year now so will be curious as to how effective they are.

[fisherking]

I'm pretty happy with how Logic and everything else is performing on 10.10.5, everything works and the system feels really snappy. What I'm wondering is even once the third party plug in issues are solved is there really much point updating to 10.11.1? Are there any new features that will positively impact audio? I am using a Duet firewire and will be for a little while yet, so given the end of support for it I'm seriously considering freezing my system at 10.10.5 much like I did on 10.6.8, which I stayed with until finally upgrading directly to the last version of Mavericks.

 

I'm tempted to upgrade as I saw a few interesting features and I recall reading somewhere that it seems to result in better performance for older machines like my aging MacPro, anyone else on a similar set up who can confirm or deny this?

 

what year is your mac? to be honest, the little touches are nice, but...little. it's the under the hood changes that matters most (to me, anyway). el capitan is allegedly more stable, faster, lighter. for me, so far...stable. maybe slightly 'faster' than yosemite.

 

the work is always the most important thing. if you're happy where you are, definitely worth waiting for plugin issues to be sorted out; keep an eye on your developers' sites.

 

i LIKE to dive in headfirst (and yeah, i've banged my head more than a few times). but i really believe the music (and whatever other work you do) matters most; the OS is just there to support the work.

[ReDRuMxxx]

I don't get what's being discussed here. There's some people with good experiences after upgrading, there's people with bad experiences, and then there's a huge list of manufacturers who don't suggest upgrading.

 

What is there to discuss?

[xgman]

If I add any new or updated .component to logic x, I get stuck on the checking AU units screen until I restart the computer and then Logic X opens normally. I sure regret upgrading.

[fisherking]

If I add any new or updated .component to logic x, I get stuck on the checking AU units screen until I restart the computer and then Logic X opens normally. I sure regret upgrading.

 

wish i could help. i've added several new plugins this weekend (OP-X, a serum update, a pianoteq update), without issue. the whole AU/el capitan thing...wish apple would address this. a logic update/fix needs to happen asap.

[Spiralsurfer]

 

what year is your mac? to be honest, the little touches are nice, but...little. it's the under the hood changes that matters most (to me, anyway). el capitan is allegedly more stable, faster, lighter. for me, so far...stable. maybe slightly 'faster' than yosemite.

 

 

I'm using a 2008 MacPro with a lot of upgraded components, so it still does what I need it to do remarkably well considering its age.

[xgman]

If I add any new or updated .component to logic x, I get stuck on the checking AU units screen until I restart the computer and then Logic X opens normally. I sure regret upgrading.

 

wish i could help. i've added several new plugins this weekend (OP-X, a serum update, a pianoteq update), without issue. the whole AU/el capitan thing...wish apple would address this. a logic update/fix needs to happen asap.

 

I have tried all sorts of things. Randomly LPX just won't get past the checking AU screen and then after a restart it goes right in. Something is getting stuck and I have tried everything I can think of to see what the problem is. I guess I'll keep hoping that either a Logic patch, a midi patch or a El Cap update cures this. Hard to get any work done.

[fisherking]

I have tried all sorts of things. Randomly LPX just won't get past the checking AU screen and then after a restart it goes right in. Something is getting stuck and I have tried everything I can think of to see what the problem is. I guess I'll keep hoping that either a Logic patch, a midi patch or a El Cap update cures this. Hard to get any work done.

 

it's hard to suggest things sometimes; you never want to mess up someone's setup. but...have u tried, perhaps, moving the com.apple.audiounits.cache file out of the user>home>library>cache folder? close logic, move that file to the desktop (don't trash it, in case you need to put it back). reboot. you'll have to re-validate everything. if it's better, great. if it's worse, you repeat the process...but put the original file back.

 

i'm a good troubleshooter, but...it's a rabbit hole, and you gotta be there. frustrating. hope there's a fix soon.

 

anyone else have an idea?

[alexff]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned - have you tried the auvaltool swap trick? I used this to kick Kontakt into working again.

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/how-to-fix-el-capitan-beta-problems-crashing-logic-au-scan.261838/

 

As an addition to the instructions via the link - you can use your own copy of the auvaltool from Yosemite if you still have a time machine backup around.

 

Edit: I see it's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Just to add - this was a pretty elegant solution for me, I just needed to swap the one file and I was up and running, but I should stress the only plug I use other than Logic stock, is Kontakt.

[gno]

This is what I got from Sound Radix:

 

"32 Lives is fully compatible with OS X El Capitan, however, some older plug-ins may not be compatible with the system and therefore won't work with 32 Lives as well."

 

This is what I got from PSPAudioWare when I asked about their plugins:

 

"According to our testers they work without any problems."

[fusbur]

Jesus you guys - any chance of getting back to the original thread???

Come on mods, why aren't you sorting this BS out!

[xgman]

I have tried all sorts of things. Randomly LPX just won't get past the checking AU screen and then after a restart it goes right in. Something is getting stuck and I have tried everything I can think of to see what the problem is. I guess I'll keep hoping that either a Logic patch, a midi patch or a El Cap update cures this. Hard to get any work done.

 

it's hard to suggest things sometimes; you never want to mess up someone's setup. but...have u tried, perhaps, moving the com.apple.audiounits.cache file out of the user>home>library>cache folder? close logic, move that file to the desktop (don't trash it, in case you need to put it back). reboot. you'll have to re-validate everything. if it's better, great. if it's worse, you repeat the process...but put the original file back.

 

I'm a good troubleshooter, but...it's a rabbit hole, and you gotta be there. frustrating. hope there's a fix soon.

 

anyone else have an idea?

 

Actually yes, but the function of Kontakt and Arturia and other plugins needed some workarounds and without the existing file I end up with many plugins that don't validate even with the force AU validation app, So it's a question of some plugs don't work or having to restart all the time. I should probably troubleshoot it more though along those lines. Also I am waiting for Nektar to provide a better working midi driver next week because Logic 9 won't run at all anymore with their current midi driver and I feel like that may also be affecting LPX. Hopefully time will sort this out. I'm just frustrated because I made the dumb mistake of going from a completely stable working system to one with so many audio issues. I tested El Cap final on a spare partition and it seemed to work so I went ahead and did it on my main drive. The issues started up right after that on both drives. I didn't test it out long enough. Complete user error I admit. That said, I still don't see what the need was to change everything around in AU since it was working just fine in Yosemite. Change for the sake of change isn't always the way to go. And if you fix one thing and break three, well that doesn't make much sense either. . .