Score Editor and Tablature questions

[Muttley]

Hi Guys,

 

I am trying to transcribe my first ever score / tab of a simple guitar solo for tuition purposes but I've run into a few problems which I just can't seem to resolve. Does anyone have any experience of using Logic for Tab.

 

The solo I am trying to transcribe is the Darrel Higham solo from Imelda May's version of Tainted Love. The problems are as follows:

 

1 - Display quantise works best as 4,12 but there are a few phrases where 16th notes are required. I thought I had managed to solve this using the N-tuplets work around described in the manual however, this forces the last triplet of the previous beat to show as a double stop with the first note of the 16th phrase (bars 13 and 14 below). The notes are definitely in the right place in the midi data but nothing I have tried seems to let me represent them properly on the score.

 

Sample of timing display issue

 

2 - I want to show a slide into or out of a note with no specific start note. It isn't actually attached to the destination note as this is picked again. This happens twice - into the C at the beginning of bar 5 and into the F# at the beginning of bar 8. I managed to insert a slide (although I can't seem to do it any more) but it was way too big and in the wrong place. However I couldn't move, resize or even delete it start again. When I insert it and like it to a note it deletes the picking information as Logic assumes you can't slide into a not and pick it.

 

 

3 - The final problem is that I wan't to include right hand picking instructions for the hybrid pick and fingers style. However, Logic assumes that I should be using either finger notation (p i m a c) or pick notation for down and up strokes with he plectrum. I automatically places pick information above the notes but finger information below them. I want to make them both show next to each other but can't see a way to override the default. Is there something I am missing? I thought I might be able to drag the symbols with the layout tool or something but nothing seems to be working. Also where two notes are played simultaneously with Pick and a finger I want the symbols to stack on top of each other in the order of the notes but logic puts the thumb or pick down stroke above the 3rd finger (a) which implies the guitar is strung upside down.

 

Any ideas gratefully received.

 

Cheers

Picking notation issue

[SRF_Audio]

How did you input the original notes? Are the note lengths quantized, as well as the position?

 

The score editor works best with very form fitted notes, no overlap (unless it's a chord) etc.

 

As for symbols, have you tried inputting the symbols into the list editor as meta events at the correct position?

[volovicg]

Display quantise works best as 4,12 but there are a few phrases where 16th notes are required. I thought I had managed to solve this using the N-tuplets work around described in the manual however, this forces the last triplet of the previous beat to show as a double stop with the first note of the 16th phrase (bars 13 and 14 below). The notes are definitely in the right place in the midi data but nothing I have tried seems to let me represent them properly on the score.

 

N-Tuplet can be tricky and it starting position is key. In this case assuming when you quantize the whole piece ( those two measure look correct..) if that is the case, then I would separate those measures out and assign a different quantization to those two regions as compared to the rest of the score.

 

 

2 - I want to show a slide into or out of a note with no specific start note. It isn't actually attached to the destination note as this is picked again. This happens twice - into the C at the beginning of bar 5 and into the F# at the beginning of bar 8. I managed to insert a slide (although I can't seem to do it any more) but it was way too big and in the wrong place. However I couldn't move, resize or even delete it start again. When I insert it and like it to a note it deletes the picking information as Logic assumes you can't slide into a not and pick it.

 

To delete it - select the note and hit control+shift+delete. I think the slides are automatic - requires a start/end note with the end being the note where the attribute is stored. Let me think on that one a bit and get back to you... maybe you can post another screen shot of what it should look like if correct ( grab a web image somewhere).

 

 

3 - The final problem is that I wan't to include right hand picking instructions for the hybrid pick and fingers style. However, Logic assumes that I should be using either finger notation (p i m a c) or pick notation for down and up strokes with he plectrum. I automatically places pick information above the notes but finger information below them. I want to make them both show next to each other but can't see a way to override the default. Is there something I am missing? I thought I might be able to drag the symbols with the layout tool or something but nothing seems to be working. Also where two notes are played simultaneously with Pick and a finger I want the symbols to stack on top of each other in the order of the notes but logic puts the thumb or pick down stroke above the 3rd finger (a) which implies the guitar is strung upside down.

 

You can drag the pick notation in independent of a note, by holding the option key while dragging it in. You can place it where every you want - it becomes an independent symbol. Same thing with pima - hold option key down and you can position anywhere in the score ( independent of it being a note attribute).

[Muttley]

@volvovicg thanks for the clear answers but I'm still having problems.

 

1 - OK I will try that. That was actually the first thing I tried though prior to the n tupelo thing. However, when I split the regions I only saw part of the piece in page mode on screen afterwards rather than the whole song. Clearly there is something else I need to do to get the full piece showing. I'll revisit the manual.

 

2 - I've managed to get something workable for the slide by making a slide from the A on beat three of bar 4 to the C on beat one of bar 5 but without the "S" above the line. I'm not 100% sure how I should write it but this is close enough.

 

3 - I must be doing something wrong because I can't move them at all. They just highlight and turn green. When I try to drag them it just highlights more stuff (a bit like the marquee tool in the arrange window - but nothing moves. I tried it with the pointer tool, the text tool and the layout tool but none of them moved the symbols.

[Muttley]

@SRF_Audio thanks. I entered over 90% of the notes with the pencil tool in score editor but fixed a few thing and moved a few notes in Piano Roll. The notes are quantised in Piano Roll but the lengths aren't perfect (although there are no overlaps) so I'll try that.

 

Cheers

 

 

UPDATE

 

Just tried it but no joy. You suggestion has however tidied up the look of the score in general, It is definitely easier to read now so thanks for pointing that out.

 

However, you can see from Bar 12 that there is a quarter note on beat 4 but if you look at the piano roll that actual note is on the 3rd triplet of beat 3. I can't seem to make it sit in the right place no matter how I shorten/lengthen it or move it in either Score or Piano Roll.

 

[volovicg]

1 - OK I will try that. That was actually the first thing I tried though prior to the n tupelo thing. However, when I split the regions I only saw part of the piece in page mode on screen afterwards rather than the whole song. Clearly there is something else I need to do to get the full piece showing. I'll revisit the manual.

 

That is because you have on the content link button set to "content" yellow chain. You can change this to "same level" link (purple) and it will solve this for you. (there are other ways too.... such as pressing the up arrow button (leave folder) in the score editor)

 

3 - I must be doing something wrong because I can't move them at all. They just highlight and turn green. When I try to drag them it just highlights more stuff (a bit like the marquee tool in the arrange window - but nothing moves. I tried it with the pointer tool, the text tool and the layout tool but none of them moved the symbols.

 

If you don't option drag them in - you cannot move them to my knowledge. They are attached to the note and will move with the note but you cannot control them independent of the note position. However if you option drag them in, you can place them where you want.... I am not a guitar player so excuse my lack of knowledge re:tab..... is this what you are referring too..

 

[Muttley]

@volvovicg - Sir you are a genius!

 

I knew it had to be something really simple but was pulling my hair out trying to figure it out.

 

Thank you.

 

Alan

[Muttley]

@volvovicg

 

Sorry to be a pest but I have another question now. re your answer to point 2 above about the same level link chain. Now that I have none that I Logic has automatically inserted additional Clefs at the split points e.g. just before beat 4 of bar 13. It has then created a 1 beat bar at the end of the line followed by a 3 beat bar on the next line. How do you override this behaviour?

[volovicg]

please post a screen shot....

 

Edit:

Actually - there are a couple of ways to address this. But for now I think the simplest way is to go back and where you cut the regions to apply a different quantization settings, cut them exactly on the bar - so each region is at minimum at least a full bar in length. If you can do that problem solved - if not we can format the score to not have an automatic break occur where the regions are split.

 

I don't know why you would be getting the clef - need to see a screen shot for that.

[Muttley]

Thank. It makes sense cutting the region on the bar although it does seem to make notating the triplets difficult. After much fumbling around here is the best I can come up with. It's pretty close but not quite the same as the way triplets display in the other bars (i.e. Logic forces me to show an 1/8th not triplet followed by and 1/8th not triplet rest rather than a 1/4 note triplet which is the actual values in the piano roll editor).

 

I still have the random cleff showing though.

 

[volovicg]

Lets get the clef corrected. There are only two ways to for a new clef sign to displayed in a new region...

A little explanation,

 

The primary clef is determined by what staff style you use and can be changed in staff style window. The first occurrence of a clef in a piece should of this type. You should never drag a clef from the part box and modify the first occurrence of clef differently than in the staff style. The clefs in the part box should be used to modify the clef at some point after the initial clef has been established.

 

Rules: ( example uses two continuous regions A & B).

1/ you assign a staff style to A which uses a treble clef and you assign the same staff style to B. (No New clef [NNC] will be displayed in region B.

2/ You assign different staff styles that use the same clef to region A/B - (NNC)

3/ You assign different staff styles to A and B with different clefs - ( you will see the clef change in region B)

 

The above is done automatically and summarizes clefs not entered manually.

 

The basic rule is if the clef from one to region to another is different than the clef will be displayed automatically, unless you dragged in a clef change from the part box manual.

 

If you have two regions A/B and both have the same staff style ( region A will show it region B will not)

If you manually drag in a different clef from the part box onto Region A, then region B will show the new clef ( see rule above).

 

changing the clef by double clicking on it - is the same as dragging it in from the part box.

 

1/ So first confirm you are using the same staff style for both regions.

2/ Attempt to select each clef and see if can be selected, if it can - delete it ( that means you dragged it in from the part box).

3/ If you cannot select it, double click on it and confirm the clef matches that of the initial staff style ( in the case of guitar mix 2 it is a treble clef).

 

In the attachment provided - Here are some permutations so you can see the result.

 

I see in you screen shot you have a treble clef in one region and a treble clef-8 in another, since the clefs are different they will be displayed. If you change either of these so both are the same - your second clef will not appear.

 

so again ( if you can highlight the clef in the score, then do so and delete it. Make sure the staff style for both regions are the same or if not the same use the same clef for voice #1). If they are double click on the clef thats different than the one in the staff style and make it the same - problem should be solved.

 

 

[Muttley]

Awesome. That's fixed the clef I didn't enter a new clef but I remember having some issues with the notes being written in the wrong octave (at that time I hadn't figured out the use of individual midi channels to display tab on the right string either) so I tried various things to fix it including adjusting the midi channel/note ranges in preferences etc so I have obviously corrupted something along the way.

 

The clef is now fixed.

 

Thank you once again for taking so much time to walk me through this I REALLY appreciate it. I think the beers should be on me! I see you are in Indiana which isn't exactly local but honestly if you are ever in Glasgow I owe you a few cold ones!

 

Alan

[volovicg]

Glad it worked out! Your are most welcome! if you can't get the triplets to work... Save a copy of your project, delete the audio(not needed) and upload the logic project as a package file. Happy to take a look at it if needed.