noisenet Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I've only briefly checked out the Adaptive Limiter changes. One thing I noticed is that (unless I'm missing something) there is now only one gain knob whereas before there was a pre gain (input signal level) and a post gain, so I'd set the input gain (or whatever it was called) so that the signal coming into the Limiter didn't peak to 0db, then adjusted loudness with the output gain - now with only one gain it's, I guess, simplified but I'd like to know which gain I'm adjusting LOL!!! It's entirely possible I missed something but I didn't see any disclosure triangle or anything so I dunno.... Any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 They ditched the input scale. You can still access it via the Controls view. It's there for compatibility reasons. The latest Ad Limiter does not have the nasty clip artefacts that the older one had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 They ditched the input scale. That's an odd decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noisenet Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 They ditched the input scale. That's an odd decision? I thought so too. I wonder if it's automatically adjusted as you turn up the gain? Doesn't Waves L2 work this way? It's been a long time since I've used L2 so i could easily be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 That's an odd decision? Since it isn't clipping at its input it shouldn't be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I wonder if it's automatically adjusted as you turn up the gain? There seems to be something like that going on as turning up the Gain parameter shows a stronger signal on the Input meter - unlike in the old AdLimiter. Unless they just placed the new Input meter after the Gain parameter? Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Since it isn't clipping at its input it shouldn't be needed. Not sure what you mean Eric? You can definitely clip the input of the Adaptive Limiter, which is why the Input Scale was (and still is) useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 It's not clipping like before. It's limiting at 0.0 dBFS. I tried parallel routing. One set to +4 dBFS on the before the Adaptive Limiter, one set to -1 dBFS at the input of a second ADL. Applied +5db Input Gain to the second signal and inverted polarity. Perfect null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 It's limiting at 0.0 dBFS. Only when the input scale is set to 0 dB. Which is why the input scale can be so useful. For example if your mix is too hot and you want the limiter to work less hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This was the way it worked before, but the latest version does not clip. If the ADL was clipping at over 0.0 dBFS it wouldn't null with the signal that was lower that 0.0 dBFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This was the way it worked before. I know. But before, you could easily turn down the Input Scale, and you would have less limiting going on. You could adjust your input scale while looking at the results on the meters. Now to achieve the same, you have to use a Gain plug-in before the AdLimiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 before, you could easily turn down the Input Scale, and you would have less limiting going on. Yes, that's true. But what I'm getting at is that before it was "mandatory" to set the input scale as the plug-in would not work properly otherwise. Here's a quote fro the Logic Pro 7 handbook: ˝Start the process by adjusting the Input Scale, just as you would set a mixing desk’s Gain parameter, or a digital recorder’s recording level. The parameter behaves much like a Gain control, but its purpose is to adjust the input level, which must never exceed 0 dBFS.” It doesn't behave like that anymore. Lets say you have a song that have overs of 1 dB going into the Limiter. You want to shave about 2 dBs off. All you have to do is set the gain to +1. This wasn't a real alternative before since the plug-in did not work correctly like this. I understand that you still would want the option to turn down that gain if you are into the habit of mixing "too hot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I see what you mean. I understand that you still would want the option to turn down that gain if you are into the habit of mixing "too hot" It's not me! It's the client!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 before it was "mandatory" to set the input scale as the plug-in would not work properly otherwise. I cannot reproduce this in Logic Pro X 10.0.7: I have all tracks going to a bus. Two Auxes set up to receive that bus. The audio at the input of the two Auxes peaks at +3 dB FS. On one Aux, I let the input of the AdLimiter clip at +3 dB FS and add +3 dB of Gain. On the other, I set the Input Scale to -5 dB so the input of the AdLimiter does not clip, and add +8 dB of Gain. I then invert the phase on one of the Auxes = perfect phase cancelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 before it was "mandatory" to set the input scale as the plug-in would not work properly otherwise. I cannot reproduce this in Logic Pro X 10.0.7: I believe this internal change was in a prior update. (probably 10.0.2) Try testing it in 9.1.8 and you will totally notice the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I believe this internal change was in a prior update. (probably 10.0.2)Try testing it in 9.1.8 and you will totally notice the difference. Just tried in 9.1.8 and got the same phase cancellation between an input-clipping-AdLim and a non-input-clipping-AdLim. I then decided to push the test further and noticed that with larger amounts of gain (for example input scale at -7 instead of -3 dB) the two Auxes no longer cancel. I'm too tired to reproduce the same test in LPX to see if the issue is the same there or not. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.a.billington Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'm assuming the reason it amy not be clipping anymore is they may have taken inter-sample peaking into account. Im not sure if anyone notice this either, but I while ago I checked out their straight up Level Meter plugin and apparently it had an ISP mode, which I never new existed earlier. I'm bringing this up because it seem to me the devs are paying attention to ISP now, so perhaps my assumption about the Adaptive Limiter might be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 It has nothing to do with the True Peak setting as it will behave this way regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.a.billington Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Fair enough. It was just a speculation. It's actually been quite a while since I used it. I'm almost feeling inclined to crack it out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 It's actually been quite a while since I used it. I'm almost feeling inclined to crack it out again. It's a great tool. The new metering system makes it easier to use and understand what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.a.billington Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Yeah it does look quite sexy again. I gotta say I'm not so sure about that green secondary color against the blue, but hey, it does make it highly visual and functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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