Heart Failure!

[erfmufn]

... So I'm doing soundscape / effects work with a children's choir. I generate all the necessary audio for a 10 minute performance and mix it down to a single track to reduce CPU load and the risk of Logic playback stopping during a live performance. I then use the Markers feature to mark out the effects and sections of the piece, so if the kids rush or slow down I can easily drop into various sections and keep everything in sync.

 

I come back from rehearsals last night, kiss my girlfriend and have some dinner and only now, mere hours before the live performance I realize something..

 

*my pocket is empty*

 

ergo...

 

*my Logic Pro USB key is MISSING!*

 

cue heart failure.. rummaging through car, retracing steps, installing logic express (grr), emptying bags, audio bags, laptop bag, etc

 

after 45 mins of panic... I found the little bastard in between the cushions on the couch where I gave my gf a kiss when I came home. OH happy day!

 

but seriously.. this is exactly why that USB key thing is a bad idea. I'm a paying customer with pro audio requirements for logic that go beyond a single location or pc! I don't buy the "i should have a spare key" idea.. I have a spare.. its the install DVD with the manuals. Its there ready to install at any given moment!

 

oh well .. a happy ending for now (^_^)

 

had to rant.. thanks for listening !

[David Nahmani]

That read like a Hollywood thriller. I really thought the ending was going to be a nightmare, but right at the last minute everything fell into place for the happy ending.

[simonphoenix]

You should write to Steven King sounds like his style of novel. And who knows his next best hit may just be based on your nightmare and any other Logic User's potential nightmare!!!

 

If only they put little beepers on the bastards so you can find the bloody thing at the push of Cmd+Opt !!!!!!...LOL

[David Nahmani]

PS I'm getting bored with the XS key as well. The other day I went to setup a classroom, the freeway was closed, I had to go out of my way to finally reach the classroom taking 3 times the time it usually takes me. I installed everything, and a few minutes before the class starts.. I ... FORGOT THE XS KEYS!!!

 

I thought I was going to kill myself on the freeway when I went back to pick them up.

 

Thankfully I brought them just in time for the students to open Logic and get started with their first lessons (I wasn't teaching the class). OOooohhh!!!

[Ashermusic]

Well just deal with it, kids because it is not going away. It is the most effective copy protection in the business, virtually un-cracked for Logic on the Mac. They have had tons of requests from other software designers to open it up for their use which they have always declined.

[erfmufn]

Yep my argument for that is simply that it hurts sales.

 

Microsoft and Adobe's products didn't become "standards" because they were uncrackable.

 

I can see the black and white reason for it, but life just isn't black and white.

[Ashermusic]

Yep my argument for that is simply that it hurts sales.

 

Microsoft and Adobe's products didn't become "standards" because they were uncrackable.

 

I can see the black and white reason for it, but life just isn't black and white.

 

I have yet to meet anyone who said to me, "I would buy Logic Pro if it weren't for that damn dongle!"

[David Nahmani]

I have yet to meet anyone who said to me, "I would buy Logic Pro if it weren't for that damn dongle!"

That's not the way it works.

 

The theory is that if more people crack a software it ends up being more popular, more widely used, and in the long term the manufacturer makes more sales.

 

There was a rumor that Adobe leaked Photoshop cracks on purpose in the early days of the app. The result was that everybody learned Photoshop, everybody knew photoshop, so graphic designing would buy photoshop, and since that's what they used, everybody who was hoping to get a job would have to learn (and buy) Photoshop.

 

I think that rumor has been debunked though.. not sure. Who knows.

Well just deal with it, kids because it is not going away.

I disagree with you Jay, and wouldn't be surprised to see the dongle go away. Final Cut Studio, which sells more and is more expensive, does not have a dongle. Apple didn't come up with the dongle idea, Emagic did. It doesn't seem in line with Apple's usual practices.

[LukeDunn]

Final Cut Studio, which sells more and is more expensive, does not have a dongle.

 

That has always made no sense to me.... the guys doing video don't have a mountain of usb devices needed to do their work.... it's the audio guys that need the usb slots clear for, midi controllers and audio interfaces, yet we get plugged with the damn port hogging dongle!

 

It makes a bit more sense now that you explained that it was an emagic thing.....

 

But it still chaps my caboose!

 

 

Luke

[David Nahmani]

Yeah. I have never been a big "dongle hater", but I am starting to get tired of it.

 

1) When I first purchased Logic 4, it said on the box: "system requirements: blah blah or better". Since I had the latest G4 400MHz (youhou) computer, I assumed Logic 4 would run on it. No such luck: I had to buy a $70 serial to USB adaptor from Griffith, which was revealed to me by the Emagic tech support after waiting 50mn on the phone.

 

2) The other day I was setting up a classro... oh yeah I already told you that one. 2nd time that happens to me.

 

3) When I work for any Apple tradeshow and have to install classrooms with 18 Logic stations on 18 notebook computers, you have NO IDEA how much of a hassle the dongle is.

• "Are they here?"

• "Not yet"

• "Great, I can't check my projects..."

• "Do we put them on the right or on the left"

• "There's no room"

• "We don't want people to leave with a dongle"

• "Let's lock them"

• "Who's got the locks"

• "I can't get that d@#$ lock to work, and the class starts in 2mn"

• [end of trade show]

• "Did you break down your classroom"?

• "No I'm waiting for the guy who has the keys to the locks".

Now we need keys for the locks that lock the (XS) keys that lock Logic. Hmmmm....

 

4) Whenever I teach I bring my powerbook, a small USB MIDI Controller and a mouse. Wait.... AND a dongle, AND a USB hub for the dongle, AND a lock for the dongle, AND a key for the lock.....

[Ashermusic]

I disagree with you Jay, and wouldn't be surprised to see the dongle go away. Final Cut Studio, which sells more and is more expensive, does not have a dongle. Apple didn't come up with the dongle idea, Emagic did. It doesn't seem in line with Apple's usual practices.

 

OK I bet you a nice lunch that when Logic 8 comes out it still requires a dongle. Are we on?

[ski]

Jay, I'd like to know what you consider a nice lunch. See, if your idea of a nice lunch is the same as my idea of a nice lunch, I'm going to challenge you to something myself! And I'm going to be in LA in a few weeks so I'll leave some time open in my schedule to, eh, "collect"...

 

LOL!!!

[ski]

BTW, I hate the inconveniences that copy protection brings just like the next guy, though in a world where so many people thing it's OK to steal digital data because they can (same reasoning behind the age-old question of "why does a dog lick its b@lls?"), I can understand the need.

 

Sure I've found myself in a panic plenty of times halfway between home and a session, wondering if I brought the *#$(*&$@#^ dongle. And there was that time when my tech pulled out the dongle (inexplicably) to sus out a problem with the computer, only to see my work go bye bye because Logic went into "No dongle? I'm outta here!" mode as a result.

 

But if a piece of software came with a dongle, and I really wanted that software, the dongle wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.

[seclusion]

That way they take the whole computer instead of just the dongle

Not as bad as the iLok, man that thing is big!

[Bow Rekk]

When you say you lock the dongle, what do you lock it too and how big is the lock?

 

I would like to semi-permanently lock it to my macbook pro. It has some sort of locking hole next to the usb port on the right... I don't know if that would work...

 

Is this possible?

[bebop]

i don't know why there could'nt be some way to use the internet - a password type thing to "open" logic on the machine

 

how hard would that be

 

we all use passwords for yahoo etc

[Bow Rekk]

I'm not always on the internet when I need to use logic though so that would be worse than the dongle for me.

 

But a password which needs the internet once and not always would be good. In fact, that was probably what you meant!

[LukeDunn]

i don't know why there could'nt be some way to use the internet - a password type thing to "open" logic on the machine

 

how hard would that be

 

we all use passwords for yahoo etc

 

Yeah but, what if you don't have the internet?

[David Nahmani]

Yeah internet authorization would be a pretty unreliable solution.

[xs4is]

Yeah internet authorization would be a pretty unreliable solution.

 

I would like to suggest that we have David individually authorize everyone's license when LP8 comes out. His travel expenses could be rolled into the purchase price with the understanding that we'd put him up for a night and buy him one meal on top of that.

 

What do you think?

X

[Bob Bickerton]

Well here's a suggestion. I don't mind using the dongle in the studio where it can live on a USB buss, but I always live in fear of losing it when I do location recording.

 

An easy solution would be for Apple to ship Logic Express, or a cut down tracking version of Logic with Logic Pro. Then no problem, when you're away from home you can track on Logic Express, then mix on Logic Pro at home.

 

I recently bought Logic Express for this very purpose, only to find it's incompatible with my G3 iBook which I use for location tracking

 

Bob

[musick]

Yeah internet authorization would be a pretty unreliable solution.

A time limited license put to a dongle that needs refresh every month or so would solve all. If lost/stolen the serial can be blocked so the license can't be extended any more so there would only be the cost of the empty dongle in this case.

Pretty simple

[ski]

musick,

 

Been thinking about your idea, and here are the two downsides for me...

 

1. There are any number of situations where, when the time came to re-authorize via internet or otherwise, it's unlikely that I'd have my authorization code handy:

 

• onstage performing

• on a plane working on my laptop

• at a recording session outside my studio where there's no internet

• in my own studio, but my ISP was down (happens a lot where I live)

• middle of a recording session of a 100+ piece orchestra for a film score

 

...if Logic asked to be re-authorized in the middle of any of these scenarios and shut down because I didn't have the correct code, I'd go f$@%ing ballistic.

 

Even if the programming of the re-authorization dialog had a button you could click to give you a "grace period", I wouldn't want that sh!t showing up in the middle of any of the above scenarios, especially the last one.

 

 

2. Requiring an authorization 12 times a year means that all legitimate owners of Logic -- 10's of thousands of people -- would have to "prove" to big brother that they're not thieves. That would be morally wrong, at best. I'd never put up with it.

 

 

To put things in perspective... DP doesn't require a dongle (and though a serial number is required, DP can be installed on multiple systems). And Cakewalk doesn't require a dongle; but Cubase does, and Logic does. These are amongst the four biggest-selling DAWs out there. Kinda makes you realize that different DAW developers have different philosophies regarding copy protection. Not unified practices adopted by all developers, but philosophies, and all things being equal, the purchaser of a copy of a DAW becomes subject to the particular paranoia quotient of each developer. The degree to which such protectionism is warranted is a matter of perception on the part of the developer and pretty hard to pin down exactly how warranted it might be...

 

Whether a dongle or a serial number is required, it is the end-user who is forced into assisting the DAW developer with their anti-piracy policy. So after we pay a grand for Logic, it's up to us to help them protect their intellectual property (and income stream)?! Hmmm... This being the case, it would be in their best interest for them to make it as easy as possible for us to protect them. This could be accomplished fairly easily IMO, though it would cost them money (not our problem)...

 

a) have multiple ways to authorize the program

 

1• dongle -- and a much more robustly made dongle than the one currently supplied with Logic. It should be made out of polycarbonate plastic, which is essentially bullet-proof, and have a cap (like thumb drives do) to protect the USB connector itself.

 

In addition, users should be supplied with...

 

2• a Logic "ID card", just like a credit card embossed with your Logic serial number. The s/n could be entered into the program in the event you forgot your dongle (or the dongle got broken/lost/stolen, etc.) The s/n would work universally on any computer on which Logic is installed, but only for 1 month maximum. I picked one month as the time limit because if you are a legitimate user but you forgot/lost/broke your dongle, this is how much time it might take to get a replacement --- particularly if you were out of the country and had to have one shipped to you (passing through customs or otherwise encountering shipping delays).

 

A replacement dongle would be accompanied by and a new ID card, and there would be a procedure to de-activate the old ID card/dongle.

 

Now, sure, you could "fake it" about having lost/broke your dongle so that your buddy could get a copy of Logic. But really, how many people would do this? I can't imagine spending a grand on a piece of software and then going through all the motions to get a (basically) free copy for a bud. Especially when they start calling me every 5 minutes to ask me how to do something... LOL!

 

Anyway, rather than go on any longer about it... no, 12 times a year to re-authorize something I bought legitimately? No thanks.

[musick]

The way I suggested would be an extra feature, the current 'permanent dongle' of course should also be possible. I prefer a dongle against piracy. We all paid for Logic and would not be happy if illegal versions could be obtained.

 

I don't know if you are maried, but how often do you loose your mariage-ring? Threat your dongle just like that, I mean we are married to Logic aren't we?

[ski]

I don't know if you are maried, but how often do you loose your mariage-ring?

 

As a pianist, I've never been able to wear a ring and perform (click, click, click); so before we got married, my wife and I agreed that I wouldn't wear one. The idea was that we'd never get into a "why aren't you wearing your ring?!?" argument cuz I took it off to play at a recording session and then absently-mindedly left it inside the piano at a studio... 150 miles away...

 

Lessons learned from marriage #1... <----- "round 1" wedding photo (picture the evil face wearing a veil)

 

 

-=sKi=-

[simonphoenix]

I was so sure when Apple acquired Logic all those years ago that they were going to utilise the dongle as part of the authorisation system for Final Cut Pro... It made absolute sense to me... But it never happened???

 

I know that for many companies to survive the loss of profits from cracks is to derive an alternative means of cash. Some of them, like iZotope sell their algorithm technology to other developers. Others like TC Electronic and Universal Audio require that you purchase a DSP device or a piece of hardware.

 

This is what Apple does, you have to buy an Apple to run their software. All the software technology is there devised so that you really require their computers and the beefier the better.

 

Or course that stands to reason, but just on the prospect of installing a 2nd HD into my system, to get speeds of 3 GBps I have to look at a Mac Pro. Firewire only achieves 800Mbps speeds!!

 

They could easily design a iMac, at least nowadays, so that you could install a 2nd internal drive, but they don't. Just so they can sell a more expensive system. And then of course you have to consider a monitor too. And Firewire 800 was only ever in their top model!!

 

I understand their motives, as much as it annoys me at times. But really in the end, due to this strategy they don't really need the Key. And it makes absolutely no sense they haven't employed it in their Final Cut Studio as well. So they could drop it.

 

But going with the theory that they won't they could at the very least make it compatible with Syncrosoft and iLok that would be awesome!!...

 

One key to rule them all...LOL

[cycloptic]

An easy solution would be for Apple to ship Logic Express, or a cut down tracking version of Logic with Logic Pro. Then no problem, when you're away from home you can track on Logic Express, then mix on Logic Pro at home.

 

Bob

 

That has been my modus operendi as well. I started with Logic Express, upgraded to Pro, but left Express on the machine for remote use.

 

The only thing is that lately I've been remote with my Mac more often than at home, so Express is getting a lot more use than Pro at present and I am less inclined to plug in the dongle to use Pro.

 

cycloptic

[David Nahmani]

to get speeds of 3 GBps I have to look at a Mac Pro. Firewire only achieves 800Mbps speeds!!

I know this is not a thread about hard drives... but you don't "get speeds of 3GBps in a Mac Pro".

Firewire 800	100MB/s (800Mb/s)
SATA 3.0	300MB/s (2.4Gb/s)
World's fastest SATA drive	84MB/s (WD Raptor, 10,000rpm, SATA 1.5)

[Rounik]

don't mind the dongle too much.....am confused with which apple id to use if that comes to fruition cos' i have two - and one of them is my certified id and i'm always forgetting which one!

 

but seriously, i think the Spectrasonics style autorisation is painless and easy. Though there is something cool about being able to install logic on multiple machines and use the one you need when you need to.

[instantpop]

I, too, love/hate the dongle. I love that it allows me to install Logic on as many machines as I want to. Never an issue moving from my studio downstairs to my laptop wherever it may be, other than the fear that my dongle will get lost somewhere.

 

To me, it is much better than the Native Instruments authorization process with 18 million codes, install limitation and so on and so forth. Then again, I've never had an issue with that either, beyond the headache it is when updating or swapping out a new machine in my studio.

 

It is what it is and I'd be surprised if it is still around for Logic 8/X. They don't use it for Final Cut. The reason I don't really understand the copy protection on programs like these (i.e., the dongle and Logic) is that there is so much content you have to find/crack to go with it that it almost seems impossible to do in the first place.