Master Fader question

[MW1]

Relatively new to Logic after 20 something years with Digital Performer and generally coping fine with the transition but from time to time there are some workflow differences - for example, the Master Fader...something that appears by default in Logic but has no direct equivalent in DP.

 

The question I have concerns taming a mix that is starting to get hot at the the Stereo Output. The project contains about 45 audio tracks, none of which are clipping individually - I'm happy with the mix in general but the whole thing just needs to come down a few db... a familiar problem...

 

I can, of course, do what I've always done which is go back and bring each individual channel or group down accordingly - being careful not to screw with automation, FX sends etc. 

 

As I understand it, however, the Master Fader is a global VCA controlling levels for all tracks before going to the Stereo Output fader. So, rather than trimming each channel, why not just bring the MF down by the relevant amount? Is this considered bad practice or does it need to remain at 0:00 db at all times? If not, it seems a very easy way to solve a common and time-consuming problem.

 

Sorry if this has already been covered in another topic - although I did do a search and couldn't find this specific point covered anywhere

 

Many thanks

 

MW

[Eric Cardenas]

You can totally do that.

It's the equivalent of lowering your Stereo output fader. The difference is that the master fader controls all outputs making it a bad solution if you are using other outputs with outboards.

 

The other issue is that you are lowering the signal after plug-ins which could be problematic when using limiters or other dynamic effects.

This is why I often prefer using a gain plug-in inserted as the first instance on the Stereo output instead.

[MW1]

Thanks for the reply Eric

 

I get the point about outboard processing. However, when you say 'lowering the signal after plug-ins which could be problematic when using limiters or other dynamic effects' do you mean limiters/dynamic processing on the Stereo output or on the individual channels being controlled by the Master Fader? If they are all being reduced relative to each other using the Master Fader I'm not sure why say, -5db on the MF is different to -5db via the gain plug-in on the Stereo output.

 

I guess my last question is if, as you say, it's better to make gain adjustments on the Stereo output then what IS the point of the Master Fader? Or am I missing something obvious?

 

Thanks again for any insight...

 

MW

[David Nahmani]

As I understand it, however, the Master Fader is a global VCA controlling levels for all tracks before going to the Stereo Output fader. 

No. 

 

what IS the point of the Master Fader?

The Master Fader is a VCA for all your Output channel strips. If you use a single pair of Output (the Stereo Output channel strip), then Master Fader becomes redundant as it plays the same role as the Stereo output fader. 

[Eric Cardenas]

You're welcome MW!

 

The Master fader is only controlling all your output channel strip volumes not individual tracks.

Using a plug-in instead is just a gain staging thing. You don't have to follow this procedure as long as you understand that lowering the fader, post plug-ins, is different than lowering your signal pre plug-ins.

 

And to answer your last question: It is not better!

 If you only use one stereo output lowering the Master fader has exactly the same consequence as lowering the stereo output fader. 

I like lowering the stereo output instead because it is a fair on the channel strip I'm manipulating, because it doesn't potentially affect anything else, and also because I often use many more outputs.

 

Hope that helps.

[DanRad]

While we're discussing Master Fader.... can someone explain the relationship and/or difference (if there is any) between the output (Bounce) fader and the slider called "Master Volume" (My new nickname!)  on the transport ;

[Eric Cardenas]

The Master on the Control Bar is that same as the Master in the Mixer.

 

 

It remote-controls the signals amplitude at the same stage as the fader of all the output channel strips. (VCA)

[MW1]

Thank you David and Eric

Now I understand - since I only have the Stereo output on this project the MF is redundant.

There's no equivalent scenario in DP-land, hence the confusion.

Thanks again

MW

[Eric Cardenas]

That's great MW!

[DanRad]

Thanks Eric, but if you look at the screen shot, I'm showing the "Bounce" fader.  They seem to not be linked.  Yet, seem to have a similar function in that changing either of them changes the volume of what you hear... one has the "Bounce" button... just not sure what the relationship is.

Note here is a shot where the "Bounce" fader is all the way down, yet the master is at a different level.  As such, no sound is heard.. and when I bounce the sequence, the volume is controlled by this fader, not the Master Fader...

[Eric Cardenas]

The channel strip with the Bounce button is an output channel strip.

It's gain is controlled remotely by the Master fader but it won't move the fader itself.

Try the Output fader at unity and the master at -infinity.

[David Nahmani]

Thanks Eric, but if you look at the screen shot, I'm showing the "Bounce" fader.  

1. There's no such thing as a "Bounce fader". There are faders on channel strips; some channel strips are output channel strips; and there is a Bnce button on output channel strips, which allows you to bounce them.
   
2. In the Mixer, the Master channel strip is a VCA that affects all output channel strips: it simultaneously controls the volume of all your Output channel strips but without changing the position of their individual faders. 
   
3. Control bar Master Volume slider = Master channel strip's fader (same thing).