Logic Users - do not install GarageBand '08!

[Subtonic]

I ruined my factory installed library so you don't have to.

 

Basically, Apple has decided to switch all their factory loops from .aiff to .caf. Logic Pro 7.2 CANNOT read this format. It seems that the installer script OVERWRITES the aiff loops with the caf loops.

 

This means that if you have any projects with these loops then Logic will not be able to find them nor reference the new ones.

 

I think it's a simple fix, but haven't tried anything yet.

 

More details here:

http://www.barbarism.net/2007/08/logic-users-do-not-install-garageband.html

[David Nahmani]

If you have projects that use Apple Loops, you should definitely have the loops copied to the project folder to protect them from that kind of accidents.

 

However, thanks a lot for the heads-up!

[musick]

Isn't there a caf->wav converter available? Then (in a terminal) the command:

find / -name "*.caf" -exec caf2wav {} \;

should do the job and converts all the cafs to wavs...

[David Nahmani]

Apple Loops are AIFF files so you'd need a caf to aiff converter, and one that retains all the Apple Loops tags.

[Subtonic]

Apple Loops are AIFF files

You mean were AIFF files.

 

Looks like they started switching over to CAF with Soundtrack 2.

 

Soundtrack Pro 2 release notes.

 

CAF is a container format, so they can contain almost any audio format. It looks like the advantage here is that you can put a lot more metadata in a CAF file.

 

According to the STP2 notes, that loop library is actually Apple Lossless now. I'm not sure if the same is true for GB '08, but I'd assume so.

[David Nahmani]

Well the principal advantage of caf is that it supports multi-channel audio files (such as surround audio files) and that file size is not limited (it is limited but for human considerations you can estimate it's not) (unlike other PCM formats which are limited to 4GB), which is great news for longer projects.

[lordtom]

So, anybody came up with a solution yet? I just got Ilife 08 today and scared to install it.

 

AD

[Subtonic]

I reinstalled the Logic Pro 7.2 content disc and it seems like everything is as good as new.

 

But check this out:

 

Apple Loops for Garageband Folder in AIF: 1.09 gigs

Apple Loops for Garageband Folder in CAF: 233.1 megs

 

From what I can tell this is the SAME EXACT content.

[Subtonic]

So, anybody came up with a solution yet? I just got Ilife 08 today and scared to install it.

 

I think if you just choose not to install Garageband or its sound libraries you'll be fine.

[David Nahmani]

Apple Loops for Garageband Folder in AIF: 1.09 gigs

Apple Loops for Garageband Folder in CAF: 233.1 megs

 

From what I can tell this is the SAME EXACT content.

Anyway to tell the CAF loops' bit depth and sample rate?

[Subtonic]

The Quicktime Inspector reports the following for "70s Ballad Drums 01"

 

AAC, Stereo, 44.100khz

Data Rate: 237.35kbits/s

 

Bit depth I'm not so sure about. QT doesn't say anything about it and I don't have anything else that will read the format.

 

But that's at least the same as the AIFF version: 16-bit, 44.1khz.

 

The AAC note is a little a little discouraging, especially given that:

80s Dance Bass Synth 03.aif is 712k

80s Dance Bass Synth 03.caf is 144k

 

Encode the AIF as Apple Lossless in iTunes and you get a file that's 304k.

 

It appears that GB '08 factory loops are not AIF or Apple Lossless, but 256k AAC files. They're iTunes Plus Apple Loops!

[xs4is]

I would have to assume that if one were to drag there loops folders (all of them) to the desktop, then run the installer, iLife '08 won't over write the old loops.

 

I read in the GB '08 forum over at Apple's discussion forums that some people were getting duplicates and couldn't tell which format they were looking at in the Loop Browser. In other words, their old loops didn't get over written....

 

 

That kind of sucks really.

X

[lordtom]

Well, I just installed 08 on a test partition and got thar format 0 error message. I had never installed any of the Ilifes or Jam Packs on this drive, so I think i'm getting these errors from the 08 files.

 

Does that sound correct?

 

AD

[shivermetimbers]

Core Audio Format

Core Audio Format is the latest addition to the dozens of audio formats supported natively in Mac OS X. Developed by Apple, Core Audio Format (CAF) combines virtually infinite capacity with rich support for metadata in an optimized-for-audio package. As a 64-bit file format, you can record a thousand channels of audio for a thousand years in a single file. And it can store any audio data, whether uncompressed PCM or compressed such as AAC. Application support for these files is available today in QuickTime 7.

 

Hurry up with Leopard!

[Subtonic]

Well, I just installed 08 on a test partition and got thar format 0 error message. I had never installed any of the Ilifes or Jam Packs on this drive, so I think i'm getting these errors from the 08 files.

 

Does that sound correct?

 

Yup. You can restore it by reinstalling from your Logic Pro content disc. This will give you BOTH aiff and caf loops, but I believe you can just toss all the caf loops without problems.

[ski]

Just curious...

 

Did any "warning" info accompany Garageband '08, or is this one of those things that people have to either discover the hard way, or, wouldn't have known about it unless they subscribed to online forums?

[xs4is]

Just curious...

 

Did any "warning" info accompany Garageband '08, or is this one of those things that people have to either discover the hard way, or, wouldn't have known about it unless they subscribed to online forums?

 

the latter.

 

x

[Subtonic]

Is anyone else disturbed that the GB '08 loops are losslessy encoded?

[yoink]

Is anyone else disturbed that the GB '08 loops are losslessy encoded?

 

You mean lossy.

 

And no, I couldn't care less.

[musick]

Is anyone else disturbed that the GB '08 loops are losslessy encoded?

You mean lossless? AFAIK caf is container format and can contain both lossy and lossless encoded audio. But as GB is a 'toy product' anyway I don't think it would be a big deal if the loops would be encoded lossy....

[Subtonic]

Excuse me. Yes, I mean lossy. The latest GB loops are lossy.

 

We may think of GB as a "toy", but when I see lossy loops in a product that Apple touts as suitable for commercial use, then it concerns me a little, especially considering how closely tied this product is to the one we use.

 

Granted, I think they'd know better than to give a Pro app these loops - STP2 uses Lossless loops in caf.

[musick]

Apple touts as suitable for commercial use

Most songs end up as 128kbs mp3 on an iPod anyway, most comercial use is compressed

 

We old and wise people worying about sound quality are from before the iPod generation...

[Subtonic]

We old and wise people worying about sound quality are from before the iPod generation...

I think iTunes Plus is beginning to prove that the iPod generation does care about sound quality - at the least, music fans that use iPods care about sound quality.

 

There have been countless threads on this forum with people asking when to dither, debating what sampling rates we should use, whether Logic users should be worried when meters hit the red; questions that audiophiles ask.

 

I guess I just figured that this would be more concerning.

[Zicky]

I ruined my factory installed library so you don't have to.

 

Basically, Apple has decided to switch all their factory loops from .aiff to .caf. Logic Pro 7.2 CANNOT read this format. It seems that the installer script OVERWRITES the aiff loops with the caf loops.

 

This means that if you have any projects with these loops then Logic will not be able to find them nor reference the new ones.

 

I think it's a simple fix, but haven't tried anything yet.

 

More details here:

http://www.barbarism.net/2007/08/logic-users-do-not-install-garageband.html

 

This only pertains to people who use garageband, for recording right? If I'm using Lgoic it's not goint to affect me, am I correct?

 

Thx...

[Subtonic]

This only pertains to people who use garageband, for recording right? If I'm using Lgoic it's not goint to affect me, am I correct?

 

Well, if you don't use Garageband, but you install it anyway (like an iLife "Easy Install") you'll be in trouble.

[Simon]

Where does this leave those with third party Apple Loops? I can see the future being a bumpy ride!

 

Simon

[Subtonic]

Where does this leave those with third party Apple Loops?

 

As long as your third party Apple Loops are AIFF loops then you shouldn't have any problems.

[Simon]

Thats ok than LOL!

 

With all the talk of .caf files taking over I wondered if that would make them obolete!

 

Thanks

 

Simon

[Subtonic]

With all the talk of .caf files taking over I wondered if that would make them obolete!

 

I believe your AIF loops will still work with Garageband '08 and the new Logic. What I'd be worried about is if you have other applications that don't support CAF either. I've got Live Lite 6 open right now and it doesn't load .CAF.

 

Since it's a Mac format I don't know how eager cross-platform developers will be to support CAF.

[dkgross]

FOR MORE INFO about iLife '08 issues...

 

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=8FE3BF37&nplm=MB015Z/A#rev

 

I bought the $100 family pack (since we have 4 Macs..) but I think I'm just gonna take the unopened box back and wait for some improvements. I really like the iPhoto updates..but everything else sure seems kinda lame...and the reviewers above seem to have the same opinions...