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Logic "loosing" audio?!?!


riaaneloff

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Hey all, using a Macbook Air 2017 with 8GB RAM and 128GB HDD. Also 256GB SD Card. All audio going to SD. Almost all loops & sounds etc also on SD. Connected to Behringer Frieface FCA1616 via USB as the interface. Recording in 48KHz.

 

Today, while recording an artist (who had to lay down multiple parts of the same take - we are "simulating" a string section by recording the violinist several times - we will be repeating this for violas and cello - in fact, we've already completed the violas), we looked back and noticed that one of the tracks has "missing" (silent) parts. This is a track that was sounding/working correctly mere minutes earlier. There are several punch-in spots, and all takes are kept (ie.: Logic is showing us the multiple layers of that take/track), but some of the takes are suddenly "empty". They show no waveforms and they do not sound. Solo'ed or in the mix.

 

I thought it may just be something simple, and decided to restart Logic. Upon trying to restart, it wouldn't. It kept freezing on file "Violin 1 56.aif". I restarted the machine, tried it a few more times, no joy. I tried to playback that file in iTunes, but then iTunes froze. Restarted again several times, and kept trying - no joy. RENAMED the file to "violin 1 56X.aif". Logic didn't blink an eye at this and simply continued to try to load, but now froze on file "....57.aif". I renamed that to "...57X.aif", and same thing....now it's freexing on "...58.aif" and so it continues.

 

Could anyone advise: what the (*&^%*&$%*& is going on, and where does one start to look for solutions? I had to send the artist home, and stop the session, since I cannot seem to find a way to get Logic to load this anymore.

 

Thanks in advance for any help :-)

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An additional "new" issue relating:

 

1) When opening the folder of the audio in FINDER, I see the following (as example):

 

....

Violin 1 #29.aif

Violin 1 #29.aif

Violin 1 #29.aif

Violin 1 #30.aif

Violin 1 #30.aif

Violin 1 #30.aif

....

 

and so on....and no, you're NOT reading incorrectly...the SAME FILENAME three times, for most of the files - IDENTICAL FILENAME!!!!

 

After a few restarts, that seemed to "correct" itself.

 

2) Just to try and shake things up, I copied the entire folder to an external hard drive. Upon comparing the files, both folders had 266 items, but the original folder stops at file called "Violin 2 #66.aif", while this new folder on the external stops at file "Violin 2 #59.aif". SEVEN FILES DIFFERENCE?!?! Yet, I checked repeatedly, and when selecting all files, I am told that there are 266 items. So, I selected those 7 files in the original folder, and copied them to the new folder...I received the message that the file "Violin 2 #35.aif" already exists - skip/replace - I skipped - this happened for ALL SEVEN FILES - the filename is eg: #61, but it says file #34 already exists (ie." different filename). After "skipping" for all seven...they all suddenly appeared in the new folder.

 

Anyone - what the FOOOOOKKKKK is going on on this mad device?!? Am I in the Twilight Zone here?

 

Identical filenames. Different filenames being regarded as the same file? Same number of files but not shown as such?!? Is something wrong with the Mac, or is it the Universe?

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I can't say for sure, but I would be willing to bet it is the fact that you are recording to a SD card. Not a good idea. Try recording to your SSD as a test with the same setup and see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback. So, out of interest....what is the SD doing to the audio file? Or. what is the OS doing to the audio file ON the SD, or such? Any idea why this would be happening on an SD card?

 

On a separate note, there is about 30GB space on my SSD, so...maybe two projects of space....that becomes tough, as I work on multiple projects at any given time (as many as 6 - 8).

 

Some additional feedback....the aif files...some of them playback in itunes, some don't...also, some playback in preview mode (inside of finder) some don't. Is this all SD-related, you think? But, more importantly...why? Are the file headers damaged, does data get "lost" on the SD, and if so, how come OS isn't noting this, etc etc etc?

 

Please do not misunderstand my questions to be sarcastic or combative...please....I'm asking to understand, and make more sensible choices etc :-)

 

Most important: let's say I move the project to my SSD, any idea if I'll be able to "save" those aif files?

 

Thanks so far folks.

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Oh, something else that I noticed, but failed to mention: The comp track takes (the multiple layers) some of the takes/layers are "missing"....quite literally there are (eg) 7 different layers, and the next time I get the project open, there are some missing (maybe two), next time I open the project, some more, from a different track are missing, this seems to be growing...more and more takes (layers) missing. By "missing" I don't mean that the file is showing, but no sound is heard or no waveform is shown, I mean quite literally - the top layer of the comp track shows there should be something playing, but in the layers below, there is NO LAYER/DATA for that area (some random takes in the middle of the track). Surely that could not be a file/SD issue, surely that is Logic just "loosing" info, somehow? This is REALLY extremely wierd :-)

 

Something else that I just realized...didn't recall it before: It has happened on previous projects, but I did not hear any issues: Logic gives me the following message upon project open......

 

One or multiple audio files changed in length! As a result, 78 audio regions changed in length or content position.

 

I sooooo hope some folks can advise on this! LOL - it's so crazy, I'm laughing, while I should be crying.

 

Here's a screenshot of the "missing" comp-data/layer/track:

https://app.box.com/s/ymtl2yxxm8508pwev03b4abkt5bptpdw

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There are multiple reasons why the SD card may be generating errors and file allocation problems, and many variables according to the card manufacturer, the speed etc. It sounds like the SD card can't keep up and is generating all kinds of file creation errors, especially when you are writing to and reading from the card at the same time. However, all I am suggesting you do is a temporary test with the SSD, in order to eliminate that variable and see if your issues disappear. If they do, then the obvious solution is to invest in an external HD to record to, which has plenty of space. This is the most common scenario which people are using every day without such problems. It won't cost you anything to do this test, and external HD's are relatively inexpensive.
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An SSD uses similar technology to an SD card, both are lacking true random access and erase, but the SSD uses a lot of electronics to better simulate a hard drive. I'm not surprised that strange things might happen when directly writing to an SD card, especially with regard to directory and file names. Long term, SD cards are known to get corrupted much more easily than SSDs or HDDs. But I agree that, WTF, a professional app should be detecting and reporting any problems with the storage media.

 

In any case, you really should clear out some space on your SSD and try using that for projects.

 

I'd consider using SD cards to store or back up projects, but only after compressing them into single files. That's because even a packed .logicx project file is actually a folder that the Finder disguises as a file. That structure doesn't necessarily fare well on different storage and transmission media. Compression to e.g. .7z can pack the whole tree shebang into one bona fide file that can be stored on anything, passed over a network etc.

 

Another critical issue is how you formatted the SD card. Now that you know there's a problem, and if you want to continue using SD cards, you should invest some time into trial-formatting both the SD device, AND the file system that it hosts, in different ways before running actual sessions. I personally prefer using the more universal .WAV format over .AIF. It's nothing the card should know/care about, but that's another thing you could consider.

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There are multiple reasons why the SD card may be generating errors and file allocation problems, and many variables according to the card manufacturer, the speed etc. It sounds like the SD card can't keep up and is generating all kinds of file creation errors, especially when you are writing to and reading from the card at the same time. However, all I am suggesting you do is a temporary test with the SSD, in order to eliminate that variable and see if your issues disappear. If they do, then the obvious solution is to invest in an external HD to record to, which has plenty of space. This is the most common scenario which people are using every day without such problems. It won't cost you anything to do this test, and external HD's are relatively inexpensive.

Hey there,

 

Thanks again for the reply. Yeah, have a 1TB external USB drive. After reading your post, I also went online and started reading up about the difference between SSD and SD. I understand more about what you are saying, as I realize the speed of the SD may be an issue. This also explains why my video editing is working fine on the drive...since with the video editing I'm only reading from :-)

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An SSD uses similar technology to an SD card, both are lacking true random access and erase, but the SSD uses a lot of electronics to better simulate a hard drive. I'm not surprised that strange things might happen when directly writing to an SD card, especially with regard to directory and file names. Long term, SD cards are known to get corrupted much more easily than SSDs or HDDs. But I agree that, WTF, a professional app should be detecting and reporting any problems with the storage media.

 

In any case, you really should clear out some space on your SSD and try using that for projects.

 

I'd consider using SD cards to store or back up projects, but only after compressing them into single files. That's because even a packed .logicx project file is actually a folder that the Finder disguises as a file. That structure doesn't necessarily fare well on different storage and transmission media. Compression to e.g. .7z can pack the whole tree shebang into one bona fide file that can be stored on anything, passed over a network etc.

 

Another critical issue is how you formatted the SD card. Now that you know there's a problem, and if you want to continue using SD cards, you should invest some time into trial-formatting both the SD device, AND the file system that it hosts, in different ways before running actual sessions. I personally prefer using the more universal .WAV format over .AIF. It's nothing the card should know/care about, but that's another thing you could consider.

 

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

 

After maceasys comments, I'm considering doing the projects on the SSD, or on external USB 1TB. The main reason I got the SD, was that this meant NO extra/external stuff moving around when taking my Air somewhere and wanting to mess around in audio :-) Yet, obviously this level of chaos is not useable.

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Anybody have any ideas about the "missing" comp track layers? I realize that Logic may not be able to read some of the audio fles, but surely it should say so/warn me that they are missing, not just remove the layer and leave no data in its place?

 

Also, anybody know of any reliable way to correct the AIF file headers, since it seems some of them may be damaged, and I'm hoping header replacement/correction may return some of the data.

 

Lastly, in the meantime, any thoughts on how I could get that project to force-open, and not get "stuck" on the files that are giving it problems?

 

Thanks for the help/advice/comments thus far all.

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Well, you're hoping for a lot, but perhaps the best way is to start a new project on your USB drive. Then import the tracks, one by one, from the damaged project, with their content. I would try moving the audio files you have, so that it can't find them, copy them to the USB drive. Then, with any luck, it will come up with a dialogue asking you to locate the file(s). This will tell you what the name of the file it is looking for. Then, if you know what file this corresponds to, you can check the file and rename it if necessary, and try importing it. However, it may be the actual files are damaged, or have not been recorded properly due to the SD streaming issues. So I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. It may be irretrievable, but you can give it a try. Good luck.
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