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Ability to renumber bars in the main timeline


billscores
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I'm new to logic, barely three weeks. I love many of its features. This is a small request, but a valid one. Today I was informed there is no way to renumber the bars in Logic's main timeline. I was surprised to learn this because Logic has been around forever. I think it's high time that this feature was added. ProTools has had this at least since version 7 (2007). I believe DP has had it even longer that (I may be wrong.) It's a professional practice when distributing printed music at a scoring date to label bar one as bar one. The bars in the one's DAW during recording need to reflect the bars on the printed page to aid communication on either side of the glass.

 

The argument against this is "Just renumber your printed music, dumb*ss." And of course, as Logic users, this what we all must do. Not because it makes sense, but because we have no choice. My two cents.

 

Who starts the downbeat of their session at bar one in Logic anyway. Anyone?

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Unfortunately, these settings effect the "score view" only. I'm referring to the main time ruler display above my session. I'd like to re-number these bars when it makes sense to do so. For example, if my session has an empty bar of pre-roll, or a pickup bar -- in Protools, with two clicks, I can make "bar 3" in my timeline display as "bar 1" throughout the application.

 

This is helpful when running recording sessions with printed parts. The printed score and parts can begin at bar 1, which is typical and preferred. It aids with punch ins: "Take it from bar 35".... and everyone is on the same bar. It's the real bar "35" and not some arbitrary bar number that Logic calls it in the timeline.

 

This is especially helpful in scoring film and video because every music cue benefits by 10 sec or so of video preroll. The effectiveness of a scoring cue largely depends on the entrance of the music, and in order to evaluate the entrance of a scoring cue, one must allow some video pre-roll at the head of the session for the director. This means that bar 1 in Logic's timeline is never bar one for film composers. Our bar one is usually bar three, four, of five. This should be an easy fix.

 

It's the simple things like this that keep ProTools on top in major scoring studios over Logic. With two clicks the PT timeline can place "bar one" at any point in the session. It's a small feature, but it's logical and important for professionals. Logic's current way of numbering bars in the timeline is arbitrary and stubborn. Its first bar is alway one, even when it's not, and there's nothing you can do about it. If my music starts at bar six because of video preroll, I have to write "bar 6" into the "first bar" of all my parts, so I can track a session and communicate with my musicians. We have to use arbitrary bar numbers, because Logic is inflexible in this regard.

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The rationale to make bar 6 becoming bar 1 or vice-versa remains nebulous (ifnot illogical).

Anyhow, normally, in film scoring the SMPTE code is used against bars and beats, which in Logic is adressed via use of a second ruler.

The musical and SMPTE rulers offset can be adjusted in General Synchronization settings. Other settings are also available in Movie settings.

Besides, I don't really understand your communication problems with the other musicians; if you are not exchanging printed music sheets or Logic project files... Anyhow, you could adjust the start of the project by moving the start pointer.

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In film scoring the SMPTE code is used against bars and beats. I don't really understand your communication problems with the other musicians;

 

I can't say to my conductor, "I need it a little softer at 01:04:04:11 and give me a bigger accent at 01:05:03:23". Let me try to explain better. Suppose I've just booked studio time at a large room, and I've got a handful of musicians and a conductor on one side of the glass, and I'm on the other side with Logic. My conductor tells me he wants a few seconds of video pre-roll with count-in before the downbeat of our session. In order for Logic to provide this video pre-roll, my downbeat in Logic has to be orientated to bar 3 on Logic's timeline, except my conductor's score and all the musicians parts start at bar 1. So our bars are numbered differently. This becomes a communication problem for direction and punch-ins because our bars are always mismatched.

 

The only solution to this problem is to pre-print the music with the bar numbers offset before the session. So the first bar in the printed parts must be labeled "bar 3" so all subsequent numbered bars will match logic's bar orientation. It's very important for everyone in the session to be on the same bar number. For example, if I say, "you guys are out of tune on the pickup into 40, Let's get that again. here's playback from bar 38." Do you see why this is important? This feature is available in other DAWS. Logic doesn't have it. That's all I'm saying.

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Did you check and read about the information pointed out in my previous post?

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Anyhow, you could adjust the start of the project by moving the start pointer.

 

I apologize.This 'move start point' is exactly what I was looking for in Logic. Sorry. Someone on this forum told me what I wanted to do was impossible in Logic. This is what I wanted. All I wanted to do was make my bar 1 display as bar 1 in the time line. Now I can. Thanks.

 

My two cents: The 'move start point' concept needs to shown in the manual with an image of the 'start point' actually moved, i.e. so it displays a couple negative bars in front of it. Then the entire DAW using community will understood immediately upon viewing this page that this is the way to create empty bars before 'bar one' in Logic.

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I am glad you found the solution to your issue.

Thanx also for keeping us posted about same!

Regarding the documentation, I couldn't agree more with you: there is definitely place for improvement...

That is probably why 3rd party publication abound. Some are more recommendable than others.

One notorious reference is definitely the book from this very board's host.

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  • 6 months later...

Hi Atlas:

 

I often use pick-up notes in my songs, and I want them to start at measure 0. (which as David pointed out to me) creates the like probability, the project will become corrupt.

 

I get adjusting bars for score. But I'm a bit lost on smite. Can I get Logic to actually start and roll a bar of two, and then on piano roll start measures with 0 and 1, (while not actually starting there).. I two want score and piano roll to be consistent in their numbering. I edit equally from piano roll and score edit. so I must keep remembering the offset.

To further complicate things, I often use another application to write out a chord chart, (since Apple in their INFINITE wisdom does NOT want to include a chord track. Between the different issues, I get bogged down.

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...I often use pick-up notes in my songs, and I want them to start at measure 0. (which as David pointed out to me) creates the like probability, the project will become corrupt.
That is indeed sadly notorious. Even if the project doesn't actually get corrupted, chances are that it will eventually make Logic start acting unpredictably.

 

I get adjusting bars for score. But I'm a bit lost on smite. Can I get Logic to actually start and roll a bar of two, and then on piano roll start measures with 0 and 1, (while not actually starting there).
AFAIK, it is not possible; the time grid (bars & beats) being a unique and common reference shared by the various editors.

 

I two want score and piano roll to be consistent in their numbering. I edit equally from piano roll and score edit. so I must keep remembering the offset.
One possible solution (workaround) could be to create your own offset time grid by using the Marker Global track, using one marker set as a "time grid" in one of the editor and the actual time grid in the other as editing references.

 

 

To further complicate things, I often use another application to write out a chord chart, (since Apple in their INFINITE wisdom does NOT want to include a chord track. Between the different issues, I get bogged down.
For what end purpose are you using another application to write out a chord chart?

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