VEP7 AU3 Template and Instructions

[Dewdman42]

Its not 100% clear to me if the problem is Apple's fault or VSL's that AU3 transport sync doesn't work.  VSL released the AU3 plugin a few years ago, officially as "beta" and while they have been busy working on a lot of stuff...I doubt they have spent any time at all looking much into that particular issue to see if they can fix something to make the transport work in AU3.  I'm actually more suspicious in this case the VSL is not implementing AU3 exactly quite correct on that particular issue.

Don't get me wrong, there are still some other things about AU3 that are not fully implemented in LogicPro also.  Such as saved patches with AU3 won't remember the port settings, and environment is not fully port-aware...a couple other things.  It mostly works there...but the transport thing is just something that doesn't work and I don't expect it to work any time soon...and it might be Apple's or might be VSL's fault on that one.

I still don't recommend you use the old AU2 multi-port tracks...there are problems with that approach too...but if its of any help, here are some scripter scripts to help you get started with sending keyswitches from Scripter instead of the articulation set.  But note these are setup for AU3 ports.  if you want to use the older AU2 approach, then you'll have to tweak these scripts more to track CC99, which represents port in that approach, and know how to lookup which keyswitch to send.

https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/art2script

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Dewdman42

[Dewdman42]

and yes, I am mostly using DP now, especially for VePro orch type stuff, this is one reason why.  I don't expect Apple to fix any of this any time soon.

[nono1313234]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:59 PM, Dewdman42 said:

Its not 100% clear to me if the problem is Apple's fault or VSL's that AU3 transport sync doesn't work.  VSL released the AU3 plugin a few years ago, officially as "beta" and while they have been busy working on a lot of stuff...I doubt they have spent any time at all looking much into that particular issue to see if they can fix something to make the transport work in AU3.  I'm actually more suspicious in this case the VSL is not implementing AU3 exactly quite correct on that particular issue.

Don't get me wrong, there are still some other things about AU3 that are not fully implemented in LogicPro also.  Such as saved patches with AU3 won't remember the port settings, and environment is not fully port-aware...a couple other things.  It mostly works there...but the transport thing is just something that doesn't work and I don't expect it to work any time soon...and it might be Apple's or might be VSL's fault on that one.

I still don't recommend you use the old AU2 multi-port tracks...there are problems with that approach too...but if its of any help, here are some scripter scripts to help you get started with sending keyswitches from Scripter instead of the articulation set.  But note these are setup for AU3 ports.  if you want to use the older AU2 approach, then you'll have to tweak these scripts more to track CC99, which represents port in that approach, and know how to lookup which keyswitch to send.

https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/art2script

 

Thank you so much for this! and I think you are right, I might just use the excisting AU3 w/ ocassionally tempo sync instruments on AU2. and I want to say thank you so much again for helping me this!!!

[nono1313234]

On 5/10/2022 at 3:24 PM, Dewdman42 said:

and yes, I am mostly using DP now, especially for VePro orch type stuff, this is one reason why.  I don't expect Apple to fix any of this any time soon.

Hello! just a quick update, while I was doing some research, and look into those kontakt script, a friend of mine recommend me this, I think is pretty powerful, is basically like a touchOSC program and it will do some automation/and you can customize KS/program change and sending it to the VEpro, thought you might interested in checking it out. https://patchboard.app/ 

[Dewdman42]

I am planning to buy it eventually

[raffetazarius]

Thanks for your contributions here @Dewdman42!

Are these 2 templates working OK with Logic 10.7.6?  I'm a relatively new owner of VEP and have experienced the AU3 plugin crashing Logic already with a simple multi-MIDI-port template, so I'm apprehensive about having my entire orchestral template reliant on it.

After a cursory look over the 2 template files, I'm gathering the "1270" template is more suited for a template where I have 1 VEP Instance for each orchestral section, i.e. STRINGS, WINDS, BRASS, etc.  Is that right?

[raffetazarius]

P.S. As regards the AU3 plugin crashing 10.7.6, I think it's the same ongoing issue that was originally reported with 10.7.5:

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t59523findunread-Yes-Logic-10-7-5-has-broken-the-VEP-AU3-Plugin

[Dewdman42]

AU3 and vepro7 are broken in logicpro since version 10.7.5

[raffetazarius]

So disappointing. 😞

I've filed a report about this on "official" Apple community channels since I couldn't find any report of this on Apple websites.  Feel free to click the "Me Too" button it if it's also impacting you.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254563764

[Dewdman42]

VSL appears to have fixed VePro7 with the recent update so that AU3 works now.  According to them, Apple changed something in LogicPro 10.7.5 which broke VePro7 AU3 but they have worked around it in some way.  Anyway, it appears to work.  I have not done performance comparison yet.

[Dewdman42]

also the transport sync is now working also!

[raffetazarius]

Curious where you heard that @Dewdman42 - I received a reply on a ticket with VSL Support within the last week and they mentioned it was still broken as of Logic 10.7.6.  

Quote

Me: However, in Logic Pro X, when I create a multi-channel software instrument track with VE Pro 7 plug-in loaded, I am missing the option to change the MIDI Port in the Track Inspector

VSL: Yes, indeed - unfortunately, this is by design and one of the severe shortcomings of Logic and the AU[2, presumably] standard, not being able to access multiple MIDI ports with software instruments.

Me: I know there is an AU3 version of VE Pro, but I’m not sure if it works with the *Server* version,

VSL: It used to work with VE Pro Server, but unfortunately (again...) Apple broke the AUv3 functionality with the release of Logic Pro 10.7, so the VE Pro AUv3 plug-in can not communicate with the Server anymore now.

Me: I have a template that I’d like to ADD VEPro tracks into, so I’m unsure if I can simply copy tracks from your template file into my project and they’ll work correctly?

VSL: No, sorry to say, this is not possible.
Please remember that the entire idea behind these Multiport templates was to create a (admittedly dirty) workaround in the MIDI Environment to somehow circumvent Logics inability to set multiple MIDI ports for virtual instruments - unfortunately, Logic is simply extremely bad at this...
Also, we had to realize that the MIDI Environment we have set up back in the days does not work at all anymore on M1/M2 systems, so we will most likely withdraw them for good..
My apologies for not having better news in this respect - in fact, Id recommend you either stick with Cubase or check out Pro Tools (AAX) or Digital Performer (MAS), which both support multiple MIDI ports for virtual instruments.
 

I see you're on a OpenCore 12.? - so maybe you're success is somehow that?  On my "vanilla" MacOS X 12.6.2, installation, I'm getting crashes of VEP AU3 as reported in that VSL Community Forum thread. 😞

[Dewdman42]

They just released a new update and I just tested it

[Dewdman42]

as far as crashes, I didn't get any crashes in the few minutes to tested it out.  I am in between houses at the moment and not in a position to do extensive testing...if they made it crash more that is obviously a problem, but at least they are working on getting AU3 working again.  And they also fixed the transport sync while they were at it, so once this version of VePro stabilizes, I expect AU3 to be working very much better then it has since 10.7.5

Unfortunately I do not participate on the VSL forum any longer so I can't comment about threads there.

[raffetazarius]

I'll have to revisit, maybe I was doing something silly causing the crash!  Thanks for confirming @Dewdman42.  I actually got confirmation from VSL Support today also:

Quote

 

ME: >I just wanted to check if the VEPro 7.2.1481 release was meant to fix the
>AU3 plugin working with Logic 10.7.6?

VSL: ==> Yes, in fact it did - we are now working with Apple on ironing out the last couple of flaws in Logic, so one can easily create multiport projects with a multi-timbral VE Pro 7 AU3 track by simply creating "New Tracks With Next MIDI Channel" (aka Cntrl-Enter) - Logic will then automatically create tracks on the next MIDI port as soon as it reached channel 16!

This works pretty well until one gets to MIDI port 8/MIDI channel 15, but from then on things go astray...

Anyways, I managed to quickly create a 40 ports/15 channel project, which I will also attach to this message for you to check out!

 

Awesome news!  Not sure I'm ready for my entire template to depend on something that's in the process of being fixed, but hopefully some day soon! 🤞

[Dewdman42]

I wish they would talk to me also to make sure they don’t miss anything related to AU3.

i believe Apple already fixed the track with next midi channel a few versions ago but my memory is foggy.

but anyway there is definitely still the limitation of 127 separate source tracks to each AU3 instance and I think Apple is unlikely to fix that but never know.

you can still work around that 127 limitation by using a very simple environment trick to get 768 channels per vepro instance.  See the attachments in the first post of this thread, there is one called 1536 something er other that has an example of how to do that.

Apple needs to also make patches remember AU3 port settings and a few odd things like that.  Also third party AUmfx plugins will strip the port assignment.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Dewdman42

[nightwatch88]

Dewdman42 - After opening your “tracks template”, I noticed that the 32 audio outputs that are set in the VEP interface plugin settings in Logic, are not available in VEP. In the outputs section of VEP’s mixer I only have Output 1-2. I should have 32 stereo outputs or aux outputs. 
 

Do you know why this is? What am I missing? Thank you  

Regards,

Steve 

[Dewdman42]

Check the vep preferences

[Orfeo]

@Dewdman42: you seem to be the go to person when it comes to VePro 7 and MIR Pro 3D and Logic. I have been using your AU3 template and drawing upon your insights for some time. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Greatly appreciated since I am not a musician or sound guy! ( I am restoring my late twin brother's compositions from decades ago). And moving from stereo to surround / 3D is proving to be a challenge. I am wondering now, did you ever figure out a way to connect to VePro in an immersive/spatial/3D/Dolby configuration? I read your post from last year on the VSL forum and have had exactly the same experience. Blocked, pure and simple. The plugin just won't connect, even if all three programs are in the proper format. 

Also: in AU3, in 5.1 surround there is no audio on the center channel in Logic, though I can see it in VePro. In 7.1 it is the R.m channel that is silent, #8 in the default configuration. The old AU does work in 5.1, but the AU VePro plugin can't even offer 7.1 – only 7.1 (SDSS) and when you try that, the plugin tries and connects in 5.1.4 but nothing works. 

My bafflement is pervasive! Thanks in advance for any clues.

[Dewdman42]

It’s been a while since I messed with that stuff and don’t have details now, also my computer is in storage until further notice.  But I did get what I thought to be 5.1.4 sound through binaural headphone monitoring.  However I never did have an actual hardware 5.1 speaker configuration nor did I do any fine toothed testing of center channel, etc

check vsl forum, Dietz did provide I think a 5.1.2 or 5.0.4 or something speaker config, which wasn’t included in the factory release.  I personally found that to be way more cpu efficient in my aging 5,1 macpro and good enough for what I was trying to do at the time which wa simply to try out and experience the mirpro3d immersive sound.

 

 

 

[Orfeo]

Thanks a lot for this information, will check the forum for that config.

[Whimsical_Sounds]

Hey, Ive been trying to set up a Template incorporating the excellent methods shown here. Is there any Way to get Logic to give me more Aux Channels per VE7Pro Instance?. I can't get past 25 Aux Tracks per instance (So I'm stuck at 25 Stereo returns from VE7Pro (which kinda defeats having 720 midi ins ... unless I want to do all my mixing in VE7Pro and only return STEMS (Which I don't....) Upping the Audio Outputs on the VE7Pro Plugin and in the Server doesn't help. Logic won't let me create more than those 25 Aux Channels per VE7 Pro Instance. 

[Dewdman42]

Unfortunately that is a limit of logicpro for now.

[Whimsical_Sounds]

Thanks so much for answering tho. I can work with that limit and having the answer saves me days of beating my head against a wall trying to figure out where I went wrong. ❤️

[Dewdman42]

Rumor on the street is that AU3 has become broken in terms of the transport with logicPro 10.8.  FYI.  Unfortunately I am capped at version 10.7.9 for the next few years, so I cannot confirm or deny that, but just want to point out that some people are saying this, but you know what they say about rumors...may or may not be true.  You've been warned.