bbmusic Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Hello, I've seen a few posts with similar titles but I think my issue is a bit different. I've lurked around here for trouble shooting help and this forum has been a great source of info in the past. I’m experiencing a bug with my ensemble firewire that leads to various clicks and pops when using midi controlled samplers, VST, and soft synths. When triggering a sound in real time or midi playback, a pop/click occurs during the initial attack, and as the sound decays and cuts off. It’s very similar to the click that happens if you have too short of a release/decay set on a sampler or synth. Or the sound that would occur if you cut an audio file and forgot to fade it. The pop sound varies in volume, and it seems to come with phasing issues, as the pan or phase of these pops moves around the stereo field at random. This occurs with 3rd party software as well as logic au instruments. It also occurs with standalone softsynth programs outside of logic. The audio in general through the ensemble also sounds slightly phasey and thin, but it’s subtle compared to the pops. My setup: Mid 2010 Mac Pro 6 core 3.33 ssd 1: Yosemite 10.10.5 Logic X 10.2.4 ssd 2: El Capitan 10.11.6 Logic X 10.3.2 Ensemble updated with October Mavericks/Yosemtie software package Maestro: 2.10.2 Ensemble Firmware: FPGA1.34.4 BCD 1.9.30 Daemon 1.22.17 If I switch to my old firewire duet, or monitor straight from the headphone jack of the mac pro, the sound is clean and clear with no audible clicks or pops. This has been my trouble shooting process so far: reinstalling the operating system from the ground up, using everything from Mavericks to High Sierra. I changed firewire ports and cables. I’ve tested turning on the ensemble before start up and after startup. I tried different versions of logic. I reset SMC and PRAM. I reset core audio with terminal commands. I restored the ensemble to factory settings (although I can’t seem to downgrade the firmware, the installers for older firmware will not open on any of the operating systems I’ve tried). The above originally led me to believe that it was an issue with the ensemble itself, independent of any software. But, I found one situation that fixes the bug temporarily. If i load an old logic template from a few years ago (created in logic 10.2.4), the clicks and pops do not affect any of the audio within that project. The project settings are no different from the default project settings, I’ve even exported them and saved them. The only time the clicks and pops are not present is when running a logic project from this specific template. I can duplicate this template and only work off of these duplicates, but if i work outside of logic, the problem resurfaces. This is after a clean install and running 10.3.2, loading the template is the only thing that has fixed the issue. Does this rule out the problem being an ensemble hardware issue? Is it a software thing? Anyway, this is where I’m stuck. Any suggestions or insight into this problem would be greatly appreciated. I know I'm running some old tech so issues are to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 This is after a clean install and running 10.3.2, loading the template is the only thing that has fixed the issue. Does this rule out the problem being an ensemble hardware issue? Is it a software thing? Hard to say that the Ensemble is out of the question. I would continue using the trouble-free template. If the issue comes back with this template or even a brand new empty project, then the Ensemble is to blame. Especially if you're not having any issues with the FW Duet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 Thanks for the reply triplets. I'm still having the problem on new empty projects. It's only within the bubble of the template project that the issue seems to go away, and I have no idea why. I just did a little experiment. I created a new empty project in Logic and recorded a 4 bar loop of snare hits with ultrabeat. Pops and clicks after every hit. I bounced this as an audio file. Visibly, there are no pops and clicks in the waveform, but monitored through the ensemble, they are still present. I played back this audio file using logic, as well as from the desktop using the finder window. No change. Now, I load the magical logic template project. I import the midi data for ultrabeat as well as the bounced audio file for playback within Logic. Now the clicks and pops are gone. Clean clear audio from the midi track as well as the audio track. Further, I go back to the finder window and play the audio file from the desktop (with my Logic template still open in the background). Clean as well. Next, I close the logic project, but logic is still running in the background. When I play the same audio file, it is popping and clicking once again. So somehow, having this specific Logic template open, even though it shares the same project and audio settings, is fixing an issue in the DAC process between the ensemble and the computer. I don't get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Any special settings in that template that are different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 I checked the settings and everything looks standard. There's no difference between the settings in this template and the empty new project template. I did notice something interesting though. When I switched from the template to a new project, I checked the i/o under devices, and it said (temporarily using ensemble) for both input and output. It also just had "ensemble" as an option. Once I switched it to ensemble, the "temporarily using ensemble" option dissapeared. It doesn't happen every time I switch between projects, I just happened to notice it this one time. There have also been a few rare instances where after resetting the ensemble, it shows ups as "ensemble (6342)". I forgot the actual numbers but you get the idea. None of these changes influenced the clicks/pops. Could there be a different ensemble audio path that is somehow only being accessed by the template project? Like I said, I completely wiped and reformatted the drive I'm booting from, with a fresh installation of OS, Logic, and Apogee software. So no old architecture should be present. I do have another internal bootable ssd, could this be influencing anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 What about the Multithread settings in Logic preferences? Any differences between Playback and Playback & Live Tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I tried switching those settings with no luck. Also tried buffer settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I tried switching those settings with no luck. Also tried buffer settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've been reading about other users having similar issues with the core audio or soundcard switching on to play a sound and then switching off after the audio has played, creating a pop at the beginning and end of audio. It does sound like the amplifier is "popping" in when audio passes a certain threshold, then pops again when the audio goes below the threshold and it turns off. It's the closest problem to my own that I've encountered so far, but it doesn't really explain why it only occurs with the ensemble or why the template temporarily fixes the issue system wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've been reading about other users having similar issues with the core audio or soundcard switching on to play a sound and then switching off after the audio has played, creating a pop at the beginning and end of audio. It does sound like the amplifier is "popping" in when audio passes a certain threshold, then pops again when the audio goes below the threshold and it turns off. It's the closest problem to my own that I've encountered so far, but it doesn't really explain why it only occurs with the ensemble or why the template temporarily fixes the issue system wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Have you tried an older Maestro version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Have you tried an older Maestro version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've been trying to downgrade the maestro software as well as the firmware to see if that helps. Unfortunately I need to do it on a system running Lion. The installers will not function on any later OS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 I've been trying to downgrade the maestro software as well as the firmware to see if that helps. Unfortunately I need to do it on a system running Lion. The installers will not function on any later OS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 What about just maestro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 What about just maestro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 I was able to get maestro 2.8.8 installed, but it took editing the installation package in terminal to bypass check for OS compatibility. No change unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbmusic Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 I was able to get maestro 2.8.8 installed, but it took editing the installation package in terminal to bypass check for OS compatibility. No change unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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