Nektar midi controllers? 10.5 integration? why arent there more videos?

[EmptyVesselband]

The Nektar controllers seem to be the best available for logic yet there is surprisingly little info on YT about them with logic. Its all really old too. Who is using one of these and hows the integration with 10.5? Somebody really should do a deep dive tutorial/exploration.

[enossified]

There has been no new Logic firmware drop from Nektar for my Panorama P6 since 2018, so there's been no update to that machine for 10.5. At the minimum they need to come up with .plist files for the new devices. Nektar's website only lets you see firmware download links for products you have registered so I have no idea if new firmware has dropped for any of the other models, but my guess is no.

 

I am still on 10.4.8 for a number of reasons, but I do plan to move to 10.5 and would like the P6 to work. I have already opened a support ticket with Nektar on this.

 

I also use Reason. Nektar quickly supplied an update when Reason 11 dropped and has supplied one or two intermediate updates since then. So I'm guessing they are working on Logic 10.5 but won't announce until it's ready.

[EmptyVesselband]

Ok, thanks for the reply. I just pulled the trigger on a P4. Seems like its still going to be pretty badass with the integration. I just wish there was tutorials. Im really bad at learning stuff like this on my own. Im amazed theres so little on YT for how great these seem.

[enossified]

This reply to my support ticket arrived last night:

 

Thanks for getting in touch!

 

We have confirmed the Panorama integration to work with 10.5. There is no update planned currently.

 

Best Regards,

 

Tim

 

I will say I find this a bit hard to believe that mappings for the new devices like Sampler will be correct, but that's the official statement.

 

Enjoy your P4. My P6 comes about as close to matching the user experience of the hardware workstations I used for years as one could expect for software. Feel free to post here or PM me if you have questions once you get up and running with it.

[David Nahmani]

I will say I find this a bit hard to believe that mappings for the new devices like Sampler will be correct, but that's the official statement.

Maybe that's the follow-up question you should ask Tim, if there's any integration for some of the new plug-ins? I don't see Sampler or Quick Sampler listed in the list of mapped plug-ins on the Nektar website:

 

Alchemy

ES E

ES M

ES P

ES1

ES2

EFM1

EXS24

EVOC 20

Vintage B3

Vintage Clav

Vintage E-Piano

Retro Synth

Ultrabeat

Drum Kit Designer

Sculpture

 

https://nektartech.com/logic-integration/

[enossified]

I already did a followup, waiting on his answer and will post it here.

[skijumptoes]

I made the Logic mapping editor for Nektar that should get distributed to Logic users, trouble is my dev machine (Old Mac Pro) can't run the latest MacOS version so can't test it with latest OS or LPX 10.5.

 

However, fingers crossed if it is working still, it should pick up the internal instruments and allow you to map yourself.

I keep meaning to try it on my MBP, so curious to hear from anyone if it's still working for them?

 

Link:-

http://getpatched.co.uk/downloads/apps/nektar/panorama/nkPanoramaLogic_Tool.zip

[enossified]

Hi skijumptoes!

 

Been using your editor on my iMac since I got my P6 a few years ago and I love it. Text editing plists is like water torture, thank you for saving me from that

 

Just because I had nothing better to do today, I installed Logic 10.5.1 on my laptop (OS 10.15.6) along with your editor and the Nektar files for Logic. The editor did not show Sampler or QuickSampler, no surprise.

 

I opened up Logic and created a track with Sampler and a track with Quick Sampler. The P6 recognized each by name, but the parameters were in totally random order as I suspected would be the case. When switching pages in the P6 screen only numbers, not names, were present. Not a surprise, without a new firmware drop, no factory mappings should exist

 

Then I saved a user default sound for each instrument. The editor now showed both devices in the list. The mappings can be edited to taste manually as if they were third party plugins but it would be nice if Nektar would create proper factory maps with named pages as for the other Logic devices. We'll see what response I get back from them.

[skijumptoes]

Ah that's good news, appreciate you trying it.

 

What's quite annoying from a Logic perspective is that VST enabled hosts (Such as Cubase) seem to have a different mapping system than Logic, whereby you can use Nektar's own Nektarine app, create a mapping, and the copy those files into specific locations for your device. It's not promoted as being possible, but it works.

 

With the nektarine app it allows you to create pages and sub pages, and name them all - i.e. just like the Logic integrated instruments with the 'deep' maps.. It's not perfect to use, but there must be a technical reason why they never went that way with Logic and the parameter lists.

 

I really feel as though Nektar are trying to move to the plugin method via Nektarine and the T Series controllers, which is really a big shame if so as the P Series and it's transparent system is brilliant... However, i imagine it takes up resources for each DAW and their subsequent updates, and when all the competition seem to be opting for wrapper systems you can soon get left behind on a 'per feature' basis.

 

Let's hope MIDI 2.0 brings some commonality for external controllers, particularly where displays are concerned.

[enossified]

MIDI 2.0 won't help because the real problem is how automatable parameters for plugins are ordered and named, as can be seen in plist files. Until software mfrs come up with a universal format (no, NKS is not the solution) controller vendors will continue to use wrappers or plugin hosting as a solution, with each method incompatible with the others. None of these work with the native devices within DAWs anyway, so the benefit is only for third party devices.

[skijumptoes]

MIDI 2.0 (MIDI-CI) has native support for JSON data to be transferred from device to device.

 

So, that effectively not only covers parameters and presets, but the standard will exist to have custom UI's appear on one MIDI device that's sent from another. Which opens the possibility that we will be selecting presets and parameters directly from hardware to plugin, rather than relying on the DAW hosted presets.

 

So it should very much help. The fact that panels can be sent is really a great concept and if it follows a CSS style formatting approach it can be scaleable depending on screen.

 

I think adoption will be good, as it's a far more open/modern approach to the days of traditional MIDI transmissions that had to be parsed via SysEx. Makes development a breeze if all you've got to send is some basic JSON data as it's all human-readable data.

 

I'm hopeful.

[enossified]

Doesn't that require the plugins themselves to be fully MIDI compliant devices, above and beyond the usual VST/AU/AAX protocols?

 

I'll admit I haven't been keeping track of MIDI 2 as I have no plans to ever return to using hardware.

[skijumptoes]

No, as MIDI 2.0 is agnostic, meaning that the plugins could communicate via ethernet, "In theory" Any capable device on that network would be able to see/access each other directly no matter how connected.

 

MIDI, USB etc. stll all relevant too, but i can see the immediate path being that controllers ship with an Ethernet based client (either on the host OS, or the hardware itself) which becomes the hub, and the hardware communicates with that client Just like how EuCon currently works, and Native Instruments to a degree.

 

Basically how we address MIDI devices and plugins remotely will all change as they will be become individually identifiable without the requirement to go through the DAW.

 

Basically means that for automation data to be recorded it will come from your controller, through to the plugin and DAW receives it that way (Controller > Plugin > DAW). Whereas currently it's the reverse, Controller > DAW > Plugin.

 

I think upholding compatibility with older devices is what will slow the progression, however.

 

Of course, this is only as i see it from reading the specs and various talks on the subject. It's a long way off, but i truly believe with so much communicating via JSON it will be easy to develop once the framework is in place.

[enossified]

Here is Nektar's reply which is disappointing:

 

Im not sure we'll get to a 10.5 update for Panorama, so I suggest mapping the samplers through the nk_parameterTool software (you can edit the plists directly if you prefer of course!).

 

Unfortunately one of the biggest improvements in 10.5 - the Drum Machine - can not be mapped as it is not recognised as an instrument currently.

 

I have reported this to Apple.

 

Best Regards,

 

Tim

[rAC]

That would be [i guess] because the Drum Machine is actually a number of instruments not a complete instrument itself.

[EmptyVesselband]

Thanks for all the replies here. I just got my p4 and Im having trouble figuring out how to set it up with logic. Again, theres suprisingly little info online. I go to control surfaces but its not showing up. I go to control surfaces setup and the only nektar in the list is the impakt. any help? do I need to install software?

The panorama user guide pdf for logic page says page not found.

[EmptyVesselband]

Ok I registered it with nektar and downloaded the package. the only thing it seemed I could install is the apple support package. Logic sees the midi info when i press keys but I still have no transport control etc. is there more to install or do?

[EmptyVesselband]

Well ok I was being a bit lazy. figured out the install, did the firmware update and all but still same situation. Now the p4 is in the list of controller surfaces but it in italics. I chose add manually. No change. what next? thanks.

[enossified]

What's next is to start all over again. Delete the P4 from the control surface list and quit Logic. Reinstall the Panorama_Apple_Support installer. Turn P4 on, relaunch Logic.

 

The P4 appears as 4 MIDI devices to Logic, Internal (generic controller), Mixer, Instrument and Transport. When Logic is not running, only Internal mode works and the buttons to select the other three buttons will not respond. Most often, when the P4 recognizes Logic, it will switch into Mixer mode.

 

I am still using Logic 10.4.8, not 10.5, but after updating from 10.4.3 I found that Logic sometimes won't see my P6. Cycling the P6 power sometimes clears this, other times I have to relaunch Logic. This is a real annoyance but I have yet to find a fix that makes this more reliable.

[EmptyVesselband]

OK, so just reinstall the apple support, I dont need to uninstall anything? delete it from the control surface list in the first window that comes up under setup?

[enossified]

Deleting the existing support file before reinstalling won't hurt anything.

 

When you open up the Control Surfaces window, delete all 3 instances of the P4 as seen below.

 

[EmptyVesselband]

SO Ive deleted the p4 from the control surfaces list, reinstalled the apple support... Do I need to do anything in logic to get it to link with the p4 as a control surface? Add it in setup?

[enossified]

Logic should recognize it immediately and opening the Control Surfaces window should show you the image posted. If not, just backtrack:

 

1. You loaded the latest firmware into your P4??? (this was in the download along with the Logic installer and manuals)

 

2. Launch Audio/MIDI Setup (in Utilities) and verify you see FOUR ports for the P4

[garrywithtwors]

Anyone find a solution to this? I've installed the latest firmware on my p6, cycled power on the comp/logic/controller, see 4 ports in audio/midi setup and Logic still doesn't have panorama in the list of control surfaces

[enossified]

Did you complete this step from the user guide? This is critical.

 

Locate “Panorama_Apple_Support” installer in the zip file you downloaded and run it.

 

Can you see Panorama (Internal) as a MIDI input in Logic?

[garrywithtwors]

Did you complete this step from the user guide? This is critical.

 

Locate “Panorama_Apple_Support” installer in the zip file you downloaded and run it.

 

Can you see Panorama (Internal) as a MIDI input in Logic?

 

Yea I did that. I ended up having to go into audio midi setup, deleting the panorama, and then powering it on. Working perfect since then. Now if I can just figure out how to program these f keys then I've got it made

[skijumptoes]

Do you mean the f keys to send key/keyboard strokes?

If so, a MacOS update broke that several years back and Nektar couldn't/didn't find a way around it, as far as i'm aware.

[garrywithtwors]

Do you mean the f keys to send key/keyboard strokes?

If so, a MacOS update broke that several years back and Nektar couldn't/didn't find a way around it, as far as i'm aware.

 

Yea, I heard about that and it sucks cause I can't figure out what else I would wanna use them for? I just wanna be able to redo, create duplicate track, copy, paste, cut, delete from my f keys