Plugins, Routing and I/O Shifted like crazy Very Odd

[David Nahmani]

It's not related to your template being basic or complex. It's related to the fact that your template was created in an earlier version of Logic when the Click channel was created differently. At one point, in earlier versions, it was created as the last software instrument channel number, I believe it was #255. Nowadays it's handled dynamic as the next available software instrument channel number, so that if your project has 4 software instrument the click is #5, if you add one new instrument and have 5 instruments then the click is dynamically moved to #6 etc. Somehow if you use an older template where the click is on #255 then that trips up Logic's handling of core audio channels.

[question]

David,

thanks for the response, very interesting.

This click issue does then seem related to the track chaos issue.

Could it be that when creating new software instrument tracks, the click instance is sort of "displacing" other

software instrument tracks in a random or unpredictable way?

Sorry for the laymans question, I studied music and not programming!

 

In any case both problems are occuring when creating, bouncing, merging or importing software or audio tracks, so it makes sense that the new handling of the click track could be related.

I am too deep into my project to move to a new template right now.

 

Does anyone else have either the click disappearing or track shuffling issue, who is using a template from an earlier Logic version?

[David Nahmani]

In case you need/want to experiment with reimporting the tracks to a new project, it's fairly easy to rebuild your project by creating a new empty project then choose File > Import > Logic Projects then select all your tracks, content, automation data etc... including the global tracks and import everything. See if that helps. If the issue you're suffering from is truly slowing you down then it's worth a shot?

[question]

Hi David,

thats a great idea, but I have about 30 music cues in 10 or so relatively complex Logic projects so I have to consider if I want to give your idea a try.

My workaround at the moment is to manually save every few minutes (which I have always done as a reflex anyway), then if anything goes wrong I just quit Logic without saving and then re-open the project.

 

I am pretty sure that you are right about the new method of Logic's creating or re-assigning of the metronome being the cause of these problems.

I plan to re-do my template after this job and will report back to this thread to hopefully help anyone else who might have the same issue.

Thanks to you for this great forum and your knowledge and problem solving skills.

[David Nahmani]

Ok as long as you have a workaround that suits your workflow for now that's what matters. And yes, make sure you have multiple backups so that you can easily revert to a working version should anything go awry. Sounds like a plan.

[question]

I can more or less recreate the metronome qutting issue by using "create duplicate track" from the "track" menu, or importing a software instrument from another Logic project.

This seems to confirm somewhat David's idea regarding the new implementation of the click.

As David mentioned in an earier post; better to avoid using an old template in a newer Logic version.

[question]

It seems (in my project) that the metronome quitting issue can be recreated by importing audio files and channels from another project. After importing, the metronome is gone. Reopening the Logic project brings the metronome back to life.

[question]

If anyone is interested.

I took David's advice, and when beginning my new film project, created a new template.

Unfortunately, I am stil having the same issues of the metronome quitting as well as the track shuffle chaos.

I am fairly certain that it has something to do with track management, since it always happens after bouncing, importing, creating or glueing tracks.

 

If anyone has any ideas as to what I might check, please write a post.

Thanks!

[David Nahmani]

If you can reproduce the issue in a predictable manner in that new template, attach it here and give us specific steps to reproduce? How to attach files to your post

[question]

Hi David,

I don't know that I can reproduce it regularly; but I will upload my template and see if anyone can see a possible problem.

 

Just to be sure that I have in fact created the new template correctly; I created it by loading a blank Logic project then adding my studio (hardware) routing and saving as a new template. I then created all of the Logic projects for the film that I am working on from the basis template by doing a "save as". Is that correct?

All of the Logic projects in which I am having trouble have a 90 minute Mpeg4 movie and its associated dialog track imported.

Problems always seem to happen when doing some sort of bouncing or channel strip imports.

Particularly when I do a bounce and then "undo", that seems to really create trouble.

I have had the issue a few times when using the glue tool on the arrange window to connect pieces of an audio file together, where Logic makes a new track below the one with the audio objects being glued.

Also I recorded an audio track with the locator on, and when the recording looped back it created a second track.

When I un-did the recording the tracks became shuffled.

Anyway, if anyone would like to see if they can reproduce these problems, I would be very thankfull.

TEMPLATE 2021.zip

[hoges1]

Hi all, I'm posting this in two threads as they seem to be about the same problem... (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145231)

 

Logic suddenly during recording, and seemingly at random, reassigns my bus and channel inputs, deleting plug ins and also removing an entire bus channel...

 

I've had this happen to me twice now, and for me it's happened since updating Logic to 10.5.1, I'm not sure it has anything to do with that as I see people have reported this problem on earlier versions also... I'm on a 2016 MacBook Pro running Catalina 10.15.5. recording with a UAD Arrow interface.

 

I did nothing out of the ordinary, no movie files etc. just plain audio recording. I have several sends, and am using the Logic drummer.

 

I do not have several projects open at the same time. I never do.

 

it's a nightmare to say the least, can anyone please help? I did a "saved as" on the corrupt version and luckily had saved only an hour before it happened. I'm attaching "before and after" pictures of the mixer to illustrate what's happened...

 

 

 

[question]

H Hoges1,

yes the problem that I have is similar. I took David's advice and made a clean new template using the latest Logic version and that seemed to help.

It has something to do with track management, and with me always happens after a track action; (creating, deleting, copying, importing channel strips, and particularly when importing then erasing a channel strip)

Read David's explanation of the current implementation of the metronome track as this seems to be related to the issue that you are decribing.

Today I recorded an audio track, which accidentally got repeated by the locater before I got to the end of the recording. Upon erasing the originally recorded audio and the automatically created new track (due to the locater being on) the tracks got shuffled.

My work-around is to constantly save as I work; if the track issue occurs, I simply quit Logic without saving and reopen the project.

See if you can reproduce the issue by using the locater then erasing the automatically created track as well as the recorded audio.

[rmrm]

I've had this problem twice now.

 

Once about a month ago so I can't remember any of the specifics. Then it happened two nights ago as well.

 

I "think" it happened as I was pulling in a sample from the Splice desktop app (pulling it into the bottom of the arrange therefore creating a new track)

[bkfaudio]

This exact issue just happened to me today. As far as I remember, I flattened a couple take folders and then deleted a couple tracks from within a summing track stack (my guitar bus) and then I noticed that everything scrambled. My drum bus turned into a reverb send and the drum tracks swapped with random send effects. Complete mess. Luckily I had just backed it up to an eternal drive because it had already auto-saved the scrambled version and there was no way to Undo it.

[rmrm]

it had already auto-saved the scrambled version and there was no way to Undo it.

 

Can't you just close the project and not save changes then it'll be the version you last manually saved? (that was going to be my workaround when/if it happens again so I hope so lol)

[question]

rmrm,

yes, this is my workaround. As soon as the issue occurs, quit Logic and re-open the project without saving.

Auto save must be off!

 

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I took David's advice and built a new template from the most current Logic version, which seems to have solved the problem.

When I re-open a project built on my previous template the problem occurs.

When I say "template" I don't think it matters that I used my actual previous template, just that the project was created in an earlier Logic version.

As everyone seems to confirm; the problem is somehow related to track management, which is also related the metronome disappearing problem as well.

[David Nahmani]

Can't you just close the project and not save changes then it'll be the version you last manually saved? (that was going to be my workaround when/if it happens again so I hope so lol)

Apparently in some cases when you get bitten by that nasty bug there's no going back, even if you didn't manually save the messed up version.

 

The best way to make 100% sure you avoid this bug is to never put yourself in the situation that triggers it, and admittedly once you know how, it's easy enough: Never, ever open 2 project files simultaneously in Logic Pro. I haven't opened more than 1 project at a time for the past 20 years, and consequently I haven't experienced that bug for the past 20 years.

 

If you need to import data from one project to another, use File > Import > Logic Projects.

[question]

David,

as you stated; "never open 2 project files simultaneously" as this creates all sorts of crazy problems.

I also never open two project together, but I still sometimes have this track chaos issue when importing data using "File-Import-Logic Projects".

If I import, for example, instruments and content then erase what I have imported, this often triggers the chaos.

I work primarily with film and noticed that a few other users who are working with film also have this issue, I don't know if this is a factor.

In any case, your advice to build and use a new tempate from the latest Logic version seems to have solved the problem; but when opening projects based on my previous tempate the issue still remains.

[David Nahmani]

In any case, your advice to build and use a new tempate from the latest Logic version seems to have solved the problem; but when opening projects based on my previous tempate the issue still remains.

Argh. Sorry to hear but at least you have a workaround that works now.

[JakobP]

...If I import, for example, instruments and content then erase what I have imported, this often triggers the chaos...

Just curious, is this happening not only when using the undo command, but also when doing a "proper" delete of the tracks ?

[question]

In any case with undo; with delete I am not sure.

Do you see any pattern?

[JakobP]

I haven't been able to reproduce the chaos using delete, but easily enough with undo...

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=156676

[bkfaudio]

it had already auto-saved the scrambled version and there was no way to Undo it.

 

Can't you just close the project and not save changes then it'll be the version you last manually saved? (that was going to be my workaround when/if it happens again so I hope so lol)

 

I did close the project without saving, but when I reopened the project everything was still scrambled.

[bkfaudio]

I haven't been able to reproduce the chaos using delete, but easily enough with undo...

https://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=156676

 

Yes, this is exactly what happened to me. It was clicking undo after unpacking takes to new tracks that corrupted my project

[JakobP]

Reverting to saved seems to be working fine here, also closing without saving and then reopen...

[rmrm]

I don't open two projects at once and don't work with film so the problen can still happen without those two factors.

 

I do import bits from other sessions though (via the explorer under the "All Files" tab), import audio and use "undo"... But I'm not sure of exact variables/combos/timing when I've had the problem

[rmrm]

I don't regularly import from other sessions though but I did the two times I had the problem so maybe this is a big factor

[Barefoot]

This bug is driving me crazy. Is it fixed and any later versions? I'm on 10.5.1

[BenLounsbury]

My Name is Ben Lounsbury and I am having this issue as well, and have been encountering it at random for about 2-3 years now. My main cause that I have seemed to widdle down to over the years is: un-packing take folders (Let's say audio 1-5 [5 takes]), then removing one or two of the takes (lets say audio 2 & audio 4), then continuing on as usual using the 3 remaining takes as some form of a unison sound etc. Then, as I create new inst tracks, and new bus sends, then ultimately new AUDIO tracks, the creation of new audio tracks (in affected/bugged sessions) starts to push everything out of order when it reaches the CURRENT audio track that's next to use. So, sometimes the issue has already taken place long before you actually realize and are able to see/notice its' effects. So in this scenario when I initially recorded 5 audio takes into a take folder, then unpacked them & deleted audio 2 and audio 4 cause they were not the hottest takes, normally the next audio channel created would be audio 6 (after the 5 takes), but somewhere when Logic updated to their dynamic channel assignments (ever moving reserved audio 3 for preview channel, and inst 2 for click channel) to save space as it takes over any unused audio before it continues on with 'audio 6', the bug was born. So when you create another audio track it would be audio 2 first (the one you already deleted) and the next would create audio 4 (also already deleted) and your problem wouldn't surface just yet. Then, when you finally create your next track, that third track will be audio 6... at that point it shifts EVERYTHING out (Busses, Aux sends, Inst channels [including the dynamic re-assigning Click channel]), and you lose the ability to hear click, and all of your bus sends are now sending to the wrong effect strips and everything is out of whack and cannot be un-done except by creating a new un-bugged session and moving everything you can from your corrupted session to the new one, and the bug in the dynamic track assigning will be no more.... of course, until it randomly happens again :/.

 

The environment window holds the details of the bug somewhere as the preview channel (for apple loop referencing in a project) is defaulted to a reserved audio 3 channel, until you start creating audio channels, then it should dynamically move three audio track numbers ahead of your current audio tracks created. The click channel, which defaults at inst 2 and dynamically moves appropriately to its one-slot-ahead reserved inst channel whenever you create new inst channels (e.g. if you have 3 active inst channels the click will be on reserved inst 4. if you have 5 active inst channels, the click will be on reserved inst 6, and so on...).

 

The biggest issue with this is that it is Intermittent, and not caused by some mis-command, or improper use unfortunately. Trying to re-create the issue, I am probably successful once out of every 5-10 times, doing the same thing to cause it every time (unpacking take folders, then removing an audio channel, then creating [or importing] another audio channel, then working the audio track numbers up until the tipping point and throwing everything out).

 

I currently have a case open with apple support regarding this, and their technicians and coders are even having difficulty identifying the origin of the bug. So I am in the process of remotely recording some sessions with them that include the issue so they can analyze it and hopefully find a solution for a future update.

[Barefoot]

Ben, I think we have the exact same bug. Haven't been able to pinpoint that but when the bug happened to me this week I was comping vocals and happened right after a deleted one of the channels.

 

Glad to hear you are talking to support and that we finally may get a solution to this.