Art ID's Articulations Channel Setting

[Plowman]

In the Switches pane of the Articulation ID editor, "MIDI Channel" sets the incoming channel by which arts are remotely selected. Got it.

 

In the Output pane, "Channel" determines the MIDI channel on which the keyswitch is sent (in this case, it's going to a multi-timbral multi-channel software instrument). Got that too.

 

In the Articulations pane, what does *that* channel setting decide?

 

Unhelpfully, the Logic manual says of the Articulation pane: "Choose a MIDI channel for the articulation, or choose “-” for all MIDI channels."

 

And of the Output pane: "Choose a MIDI channel for the articulation, or choose “-” for all MIDI channels."

 

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the sentence regarding the Articulations pane: "You can set articulations to be triggered by MIDI channel rather than an articulation ID." Okay. I'd think that would necessarily restrict specific articulations to sixteen. Is that correct? And is that therefore a way to select sounds that's separate from the Output pane / multiple outputs option?

[Dewdman42]

Near as I can tell, from testing it, it works like this:

 

• when you record in parts, if you have an articulation name selected, then the middle pane of the Articulation Set's channel will encode that channel into the midi notes that are recorded to the region. They will have both that articulationID as well as that specified channel encoded to the event. Note that you can have two articulation set rows that have the same articulationID and different midi channels. So you could have two different named articulations which both refer to the same articulationID#, but with different midi channels.
   
   
  
• Also, if you have channel set to something in the articulation set center pane, then when you assign a named articulation to any note via the piano roll or event list, for example, same thing..that note's midi channel will also get changed to whatever you specified in the articulation set.
   
   
  
• The output section of the the articulation effects what happens as the midi event is being sent out (which could happen while recording too).. When its sent out, that channel attribute will channelize both the note as well as any other switches which are defined there. They all get channelized to that channel. so yes, weird as it sounds, it possible to have a certain named articulation be recorded to the region on different midi channels...an then during playback you could opt to re-channelizing them again for whatever reason.

 

I actually didn't know until today that you could cause the incoming recorded events in the region to be channelized in the region itself. I need to put some thought into how I may or may not use that. I generally prefer that its channelized on playback through the OUTPUT section..that way its easy to change if I need to. However... There could be some situation where it might be advantageous to seperate the recorded midi automatically to different midi channels based on the articulation. It would be possible, for example, to record a part, and use the SWITCH section to dynamically switch which midi channel you're recording your events too...then later you could easily seperate them to different tracks or whatever you want to do.

 

I'm gonna try to see if I can think of any cool workflow I haven't thought of before where the same artid is shared with two different midi channels... Can't think of one right now, but there might be.

 

Note that the track's midi channel has to be set to ALL, when using channelizing behavior of the articulation set.

[Plowman]

...If you have an articulation name selected, then the middle pane of the Articulation Set's channel will encode that channel into the midi notes that are recorded to the region.

 

Thanks Dewdman42. I've been late to this realization. What we will call the "center pane" has been mostly unused in my work. And in all the tutorials I've watched, the teachers' setting in the center pane was kept at "all."

 

...then when you assign a named articulation to any note via the piano roll or event list, for example, same thing..that note's midi channel will also get changed to whatever you specified in the articulation set.

 

Right. And if the center pane is set to "all," changing the articulation by note in an editor will not change the note's MIDI channel.

 

An example. Art 1 has a center pane channel set to 3. Art 2 is set to all. Change an Art 2 note to Art 1, and you can see the channel in the Event List change to channel 3. *But,* change the note back to Art 2, and the note's channel remains on 3, because art 2 has no specified channel in the center pane -- just "all."

 

I know this sounds deep in the weeds. But I've been dealing with a real-world issue because of these settings linked to CC assignments, in this case modulation. And the problem arose because I'd set the Synchron arts to "all" (which were outputted using the right pane to channel 3 of a VEP instance) and the VI arts to channel 1 (which went to VI Pro in the same instance.) I found that even mod data on channel 1 was being sent on channel 3.

 

Now consider the following video: I draw CC 1 with the mouse in the piano roll on channel 1. Channel 1 in VI doesn't respond. I erase it, then manually move the mod wheel (then hit SHIFT R to record after the fact). VI now responds to the recorded movement. Both the moused and modded control points were on the same channel 1, but somehow Articulation ID seemed to distinguish between what I did with the mouse (didn't work) and what entered through the MIDI port (worked).

 

But here's the punchline: after I erase what I created with my master controller's mod wheel, I write new CC 1 data with the mouse and control points. And NOW it gets read.

 

 

I solved this problem (er, sort of) by setting Synchron's Arts to channel 3 in the center pane. So the moral appears to be setting some arts to "all" and some to a specific channel in the center pane makes things a bit goofy.

 

But there is a downside: CCs going to Synchron have to be set to their own channel (3) and dipping into VI requires that its CC data is on channel 1.

[Dewdman42]

You lost me a little bit with all the details, couldn't follow it. Ok....didn't feel like working my brain hard enough to follow it.. . But anyway, I would like to understand better exactly what happens with CC's (and other non-note events) with regards to articulation sets.

 

In general I have been avoiding assigning articulationID's to non-note events. When the articulation set feature first came out there were a lot of people having confusing situations where the CC's were getting encoded with articulationID's and then doing weird stuff, I don't remember the details now.

 

But the problem is related to how to make sure that CC's, Aftertouch and PitchBend get routed to wherever the notes are getting routed. So if you use Articulation Set to route notes to other channels, then probably need to also route the various expression events too. But right now, it looks like Articulation Set does not do that unless they have articulationID also on the expression events... But you have me wondering what is going to happen while recording those events when an articulation name is engaged..probably encoded them with articulationID's.. But as I recall one of the problems is that its a hassle because if you later change a note from one articulation to another in the piano roll, the various expression events that may have been recorded to the same channel using the above...won't be moved along with them and you have to manually go into event list to find the right ones in the right time range and change them yourself.... something like that...

 

Anyway, that's why my preference for channelizing behavior is to keep all midi events in the region on one single channel...don't use the center tab channel parameter while recording anything, unless you're doing it with the intention of moving to a new track or something.

 

Then use the output section to channelize the notes per articulation name

 

but what about the CC's? That's the time to use one of my channelizing scripts...which will just automatically. make sure that all expression events on the track will also be forwarded to whatever channels where notes are going when the notes are sustaining (and a little after they stop sustaining too). That way you can change the articulation assigned to a note...and you don't have to worry about midi channels having been encoded in the region to the notes or other expression events...the assumption is they are all the same anyway, the output section and the script will get them all going to the right place dynamically at play time based on their articulation ID assignments.

 

I'm trying to think of when I'd use the center tab channel assignment, haven't come up with a good reason just yet.

[Plowman]

didn't feel like working my brain hard enough

 

I understand. I post issues like this with reluctance. No matter how clearly I try to describe it, it's a wooly read.

 

I have been avoiding assigning articulationID's to non-note events.

 

Here I can't assign articulations to CCs. Sometimes they appear after I select them and then disappear within a second. It's like Logic blocking the shot. Perhaps the programmers overrode it for the very reasons you mentioned. Nevertheless, you can still get a drop-down menu of arts with a CC in Event List. If they want to take it off the table, they should make the drop-down inaccessible when clicking on a CC.

 

you have to manually go into event list to find the right ones in the right time range and change them yourself

 

Which defeats the intention of Articulation Sets -- ease of use, no more keyswitches.

 

keep all midi events in the region on one single channel...

 

Far better. But my hopes of using both Synchron and VI in one VEP instance forces my hand. I use one track per instrument. Yeah, I know. No one does that. My reasons would be better expressed on a discrete thread. But to your point: forget channelizing with the center pane, precisely because of the CC issue, and throw the heavy lifting onto the Output settings.

 

I do see the place for scripts here. XDAW will keep up with that same dynamic allocation of CCs to the current performing note. I just wanted to see how far I could get with Art IDs alone.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Dewdman42]

didn't feel like working my brain hard enough

Here I can't assign articulations to CCs. Sometimes they appear after I select them and then disappear within a second. It's like Logic blocking the shot. Perhaps the programmers overrode it for the very reasons you mentioned. Nevertheless, you can still get a drop-down menu of arts with a CC in Event List. If they want to take it off the table, they should make the drop-down inaccessible when clicking on a CC.

 

I doubt they are trying to block it from happening. not sure what is happening to you though.

 

 

Far better. But my hopes of using both Synchron and VI in one VEP instance forces my hand.

 

 

how so?

 

I use one track per instrument. Yeah, I know. No one does that

 

That's fine, shouldn't matter either way.

 

But to your point: forget channelizing with the center pane, precisely because of the CC issue, and throw the heavy lifting onto the Output settings.

 

I definitely think so. There are way too many hassles and problems trying to keep Note events and expression events synchronized as you go through the process of potentially changing articulations on your notes. LogicPro doesn't synchronize them at all. So if you use that center pane to encode channels or articulation ids to notes (and maybe CC's) while you record, that's fine it will work fine, until you change one of the notes..then It will be all FUBAR. that is generally just not a good idea. My advice would be avoid that center tab channel parameter like the plague...

 

That being said, I yet may think of a reason to use it.

 

 

I do see the place for scripts here. XDAW will keep up with that same dynamic allocation of CCs to the current performing note. I just wanted to see how far I could get with Art IDs alone.

 

yea LogicPro simply doesn't handle channelizing scenario very well. Neither does Cubase by the way. At least in LogicPro we can script around it, there is no solution on Cubase for that. Dorico, however, does channelize all the expressions properly, it looks like. I only did some simple tests to find out, I didn't use it extensively to see if its doing a complete job of it or not.

[Plowman]

It's one instrument per instance, and in Logic, one instance per track. So I put both a Synchron Player and a Vienna Instrument player in the same instance and assign them discrete channels.

 

Could I put them on the same channel? Strictly speaking, yes -- and then set the middle pane to "all," and both Synchron and VI pick up the CCs.

 

Why don't I? I'm appropriating some legacy keyswitches in VI ( KS's I've used since, I don't know, '06). They may cross-talk with newer Synchron keyswitches if both were set to the same channel... at which point, I'm the one whose brain doesn't want to work that hard.

 

How did I get into this Art Set morass? I was simplifying my workflow.

[Dewdman42]

if I understand you correctly, you have one track that will feed two software instruments...so you are using some articulations from Synchron and some from VI. Yea?

 

Fine so far, you can still have that be one track with one midi channel in the region. The articulations that need to go to Synchron should use the OUTPUT section of articulation set to change their channel on the way out to VePro to the channel Synchron is listening on. Meanwhile the articulations that will go to VI, should use a different midi channel in the OUTPUT section of artset.

 

Then use XDAW script to make sure CC's all go to both channels.

[Plowman]

Not quite. I have single track feeding a single software instrument, one instance on VEP. That one instance has VI instruments on channel 1 and Synchron on channel 3. Using the oboe as an example:

 

 

(Or perhaps this is what you meant when you said two software instruments. I think of an instance as a single multi-channel software instrument.)

 

As you know, VI and Synchron each recommend themselves for different reasons. This method allows for the interchange of platforms within one software instrument. To be sure, making them blend cohesively requires fiddling -- even when (as is the case of oboes) the Synchron-ized version is created with original Silent Stage samples.

 

There are tens and tens of ways to do this. This is just one way, accomplishing as much simplicity as I can to facilitate further work and still accommodate legacy files.

[Dewdman42]

I was already understanding that you are using vepro to host the instruments. Should work fine that way as I said

[Plowman]

Cool. Thanks.

 

By the way, here's what happens when I assign an Art ID to CC1:

 

[Dewdman42]

I dunno, I don't get that behavior.