Pro sounds and Logic stock only plug-ins.

[jpeek345]

Hi.

 

I noticed "Ocean Eyes" by Finneas + Billie Eilish slipped in as a new Logic Pro demo over Becks Colors.

 

Cool.

 

What I never noticed before was that there are no third party "pro" plug-ins on these demos?

 

As an singer-songwriter ITB purist I would be intensely interested to know:

 

(1) if this were indeed a fact

(2) if a comparison list of typical 3rd-party plug-ins was available to "reverse engineer" ANY essential/proprietary plugin into a stock-only Logic Pro plugin.

 

 

Did I say "intensely"?

 

 

 

Thank you free peoples of the Logic Pro Help forums.

 

 

-jpeek345

[David Nahmani]

Yes, it's indeed a fact that on these demos there are no 3rd party plug-ins, otherwise they wouldn't sound the same on your machine. However that doesn't mean that on the final product they didn't use any kind of processes that are not on these demos: not only 3rd party plug-ins, but also other software, hardware audio processors, effect units, synthesizers, samplers, processes such as bouncing to analog tape, etc..

 

In any case in my opinion it doesn't really matter. I remember that for my first book I asked Blumpy to share a Logic project for a song he had produced with me in order to use for my first Logic Pro 8 book for Apple. It took him a couple of hours to remix the song in Logic removing all 3rd party plug-ins and using only Logic stock plug-ins. In the end the song sounded pretty much the same. So while indeed the original was using 3rd party plug-ins, they weren't instrumental in the production of the song.

 

It doesn't really matter either IMO which stock plug-ins are the equivalent of which 3rd party plug-ins, you should really focus on what sound you want and how to reach that sound with what you have, whatever that is. And while it's true that you may not be able to reach the exact same sound with different equipment, that's not the point. The point is to create something that conveys the emotion you're trying to convey. Would Kurt Cobain have sounded exactly the same with a hardware analog mic pre or directly into a Focusrite Saphire and then using plug-ins? Probably not. Does that really matter if the engineer knows what they're trying to do and know how to do it? I don't believe it does.

[des99]

What I never noticed before was that there are no third party "pro" plug-ins on these demos?

 

It's there to demo Logic. You assume any potential Logic demo-er has particular third-party plugins, so it has to be all Logic for both reasons.

 

(1) if this were indeed a fact

 

It is a fact that this demo Logic project does not contain any third-party plugins. Remember though that this isn't the session that the original writers did the song in, then gave it to Apple and Apple put it on their servers - Apple would have changed, polished, clean and tidied up and packaged the project as a demo - so don't assume that what you get here is *exactly* what the record was.

 

(2) if a comparison list of typical 3rd-party plug-ins was available to "reverse engineer" ANY essential/proprietary plugin into a stock-only Logic Pro plugin.

 

No, you can't *exactly* recreate every third party plugin into Logic equivalents, because Logic doesn't include everything ever that's been made into a third-party plugin. However, if you were tasked with taking a session using a variety of third-party plugins into a DAW-only, no -third-party project demo, then you'd render any instruments/synths/samples the DAW didn't have into audio, you'd translate things like reverbs, delays, compressors, EQ's etc into Logic equivalents doing broadly the same thing (even if it wasn't an *exact* match and as long as you knew what you were doing, it should be perfectly possible to come up with a native-only project that sounds ballpark "the same" as it did before.

 

Is it possible the original writer/s used *only* Logic plugins? Sure, I don't know offhand. However, they do have a lot of third-party plugins available to them, so it seems silly to think they deliberately didn't use them on their project and only chose Logic plugins.

 

The mistake really is to believe that the Apple-packaged demo project, all nice and clean and Logic-only, is the exact same file that was the record mix. The producers would have supplied Apple with the source files/s, and then Apple would change and clean up for the purposes of becoming an accessible Logic demo, and that's a different outcome than what the writers would be originally doing.

[JOB]

I don't have the link but I watched a number of tutorials over Covid, and there was one with Skrillex (arguably doing some of the most complex engineering and synth/sampler stuff out there) and he said he could do everything with Ableton stock plugins if he needed to, he'd only need FabFilter ProQ3 and Fabfilter Pro L2 in addition.

 

So yes, DAWs come pretty well equipped these days. I'm personally hooked on third party plugins for my sound, but I do agree I'd mostly need a great dynamic EQ and a great final limiter and I could get a fully pro sound with logic stocks.

[jpeek345]

Thanks guys,

 

I wrote a long note but my browser and logicprohelpforums didn't seem to play nice together so I'll just express my gratitude for your super fast response and obvious wealth of experience.

 

Its a little tougher I think for singer-songwriter-in-the-DAW forum posts.

 

Even the new Billie Eilish tune has a demonstrable back-up vocals layer that intuits how to flatter Billies unique singers register itself.

 

That represents hundreds of simple but mind-numbing comps/vocables.

 

Together with an estimable know-how of effects (plugins), song structure, instrument proficiency, music theory, mixing, synthesizer basics and some 'concrete music'... Finneas has demoed what I can only hope to attribute to my debut 4-song EP.

 

I actually songwrite around my forum posts and subsequent replies here.

 

I know that you guys will get back to me and with incredible insights and edu to be reviewed and meditated upon.

 

Thanks for all of your encouragement.

 

 

One inner endorsement is worth 1000 outer endorsements.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

jpeek345

[David Nahmani]

Even the new Billie Eilish tune has a demonstrable back-up vocals layer that intuits how to flatter Billies unique singers register itself.

 

That represents hundreds of simple but mind-numbing comps/vocables.

 

Together with an estimable know-how of effects (plugins), song structure, instrument proficiency, music theory, mixing, synthesizer basics and some 'concrete music'... Finneas has demoed what I can only hope to attribute to my debut 4-song EP.

You may enjoy watching this, if you haven't already seen it: