Logic sprawl. Will Apple ever overhaul? Should I give up?

[goyt]

After 10 years I find Logic so unintuitive. Everything takes so long, so many menus, in different places. It's like a hotel that's built extensions over the decades. I'm in my towel trying to find the sauna and Kafka's done the signage.

 

Admittedly I have long gaps not using it, but then it's like learning it all again.

 

I found Ableton fine but moved to Logic for its comp folders and audio editing after switching to acoustic projects. I'm told Ableton is close enough now, and that Studio One is far less higgledy-piggledy than Logic. No offence, I know Logic is perfectly logical for some people, with every area having its own menus and functions. It just does my head in!

 

What's the thinking on whether Apple will ever overhaul Logic?

[fisherking]

logic keeps evolving, but... nothing stopping you from using it as simply as you want. other than that... not sure what you're after. an overhaul? to do what? dumb it down? and what about all the people (myself included) who depend on the features in front of us?

 

try working with garageband, it might be exactly what you're looking for...

[goyt]

and what about all the people (myself included) who depend on the features in front of us?

 

Is Apple committed to them? I hope so for users like yourself who don't find it messy. But as ever more people buy Macs and get into music production, does Logic's way of organising things become a problem given it's competition? Or is it here to stay?

 

I guess this post is to check if anything is on the horizon before choosing to move on or not?

 

(No, Garageband wouldn't cut it. I had a great reply here to a recent question about score staffs. So helpful, but it made me realise that Logic's many-menu'd layout just doesn't work for me. It's fast and accessible for some people, for me it's convoluted.)

[des99]

Not every tool suits everybody - some people love Cubase, I find it a confusing ugly sprawling mess. Honestly, if Logic just isn’t working for you. And you feel you’ve put in enough effort trying to learn it without success, perhaps it’s time to try something else.

 

Note - I’d say 90% of the time I’m using Logic, I’m not in the menus at all, and I find Logic by far the least cluttered of all the daws…. But everyone is different…

[fisherking]

and what about all the people (myself included) who depend on the features in front of us?

 

Is Apple committed to them? I hope so for users like yourself who don't find it messy. But as ever more people buy Macs and get into music production, does Logic's way of organising things become a problem given it's competition? Or is it here to stay?

 

logic's been around a long time, and there's a huge user base. and going by this forum, most users (specific issues and bugs notwithstanding) appreciate the app. but, as des99 suggested, there are other DAWs. i too, tho (having worked in protools, and a bit of ableton) find logic to be easier, and more intuitive. plus, all DAWS have menus, and a workflow to learn and adapt to.

 

but find what works for you.

[MikeRobinson]

Being myself in the business of designing computer software ... "you simply cannot please everybody."

 

Logic has a very consistent design and presentation that has evolved over time – but, "so has [product-X]."

 

Each one of these products now has its collection of devoted followers ... and they have earned every one.

 

So, if you decide that "product-X" is better suited to you for the creation of your music ... "no harm, no foul!" The only thing that really matters is the music.

 

P.S.: The developers have created a formal mechanism by which you can submit, not only "bug reports," but also suggestions. If you think that you can make a convincing case for "how Logic should do things differently," then not only Apple but everyone else will lend an ear.

[goyt]

All helpful points that I'll consider, which is why I chose here to post. Thanks. There's a lot I love about Logic. I do get that all the menus are the result of having so many features, and making them accessible. I'll try a few projects in other DAWs and find out how much of my frustration is with myself.

[des99]

Note that you can run Logic in simplified mode by turning the Advanced Tools off (in the preferences), which hides a lot of complexity. Have you tried giving that a go? Maybe it will help?

[goyt]

I've needed it on but I should try it, yes.

[SKIF]

Coming from Cubase, Logic feels like a breath of fresh air and relief. So far I only 3 projects in Logic but already work faster in Logic than in Cubase.

[David Nahmani]

Yes, Logic has evolved and it will continue to evolve. Logic Pro 10 was the last major evolution that marked notably (on this topic) the complete overhaul of menus and organization of functions inside the menus to make them task-oriented and thus easier to find:

 

Logic Pro 9 menus:

 

File / Edit / Options / Window / Screenset 1 / Help

 

Logic Pro 10 menus:

 

File / Edit / Track / Navigate / Record / Mix / View / Window / 1 / Help

 

So yes, Logic will continue evolving while trying to carefully balance an ever growing vast set of professional features with the ease of navigation. At what rate and in which direction? Only Apple knows (and to be truthful, even they probably don't know everything about their own future).

 

PS: know that you can use the search field inside the Help menu to quickly locate a function inside another menu:

 

[sunbrother]

What would make you feel better about Logic's layout and menus?

 

I've used Ableton Live and Studio One before also, and I feel like their clean, straightforward UI feel is only because they can do far, far, less than Logic. You can't have additional features without some UI element for interacting with them.

 

Also, I think in Studio One the "clean" UI has been gradually evaporating as they've added features. The articulation system there, for example, went from a nice simple little lane to two lanes, a giant toolbar, and a modal popup window with 4 or 5 panes inside it. There's a lot of composition features in Logic that I think are nicely tucked away in menus and windows, and in Studio One they're all scattered throughout a giant macro toolbar that's hidden in their piano roll where most people probably never notice it.

[JakobP]

Try to learn the keycommands for your most frequent used menu selections...

[David Nahmani]

You can't have additional features without some UI element for interacting with them.

 

Also, I think in Studio One the "clean" UI has been gradually evaporating as they've added features. The articulation system there, for example, went from a nice simple little lane to two lanes, a giant toolbar, and a modal popup window with 4 or 5 panes inside it. There's a lot of composition features in Logic that I think are nicely tucked away in menus and windows, and in Studio One they're all scattered throughout a giant macro toolbar that's hidden in their piano roll where most people probably never notice it.

Great points.

 

In fact the menus got so overloaded with features in Logic Pro that the Logic Pro team, saddened to see that many newer users (or sometimes even long-time users) never knew that this or that functionality had always been there in Logic Pro. That's why they introduced the Toolbar, which to my knowledge, no one uses because it clutters the screen with more buttons and symbols and takes away precious screen real estate that most users prefer to reserve for their workspace.

 

Try to learn the keycommands for your most frequent used menu selections...

Yes, yes, yes, key commands really are the secret to a fast efficient workflow in my opinion. And for the functions you don't use that frequently, the Help menu search field will direct you to their menu location.

[sunbrother]

That's why they introduced the Toolbar, which to my knowledge, no one uses because it clutters the screen with more buttons and symbols and takes away precious screen real estate that most users prefer to reserve for their workspace.

 

I’ve never vibed with those kinds of toolbars. I think a well-thought-out right click menu solves a lot of issues. Melodyne’s is my favorite but they only have about 25 functions in it, so they can use little logos and pictures.